231LV Posted November 3, 2014 Report Posted November 3, 2014 Rather than add this to an old thread, I decided to put a new topic up for those interested in the subject. I installed the Aspen 1000 Pro about a month ago and have got about 3 hours of flying behind it. Given the trend of switching to glass on more and more Mooney's ( and GA in general), this might be beneficial to someone somewhere... Where to start...once the installation is complete, the Aspen 1000 Pro (henceforth, I will refer to it simply as "the box"), becomes intuitively simple to grasp and understand in it's basic flying displays. The two primary instruments displayed are the Artificial Horizon up top and the HSI beneath it. The HSI can be configured to look like a traditional HSI or an ARC with a simple button push. On either side of the AH are altitude and speed tapes. On the HSI are distance countdowns to fixes. So far, so good. Simple and clean...but this is just the beginning of where "the magic" begins. The box contains GPS steering. For those of you unfamiliar with GPSS, it simply means that the box will take the fixes/waypoints already input into the Nav box and tell the autopilot which heading to take after each fix saving you from spinning the heading bug. In a typical Nav environment, this is nice and somewhat labor-saving (although, really, how much labor is involved spinning a heading bug?) but in an Approach environment, this is "golden". The Nav function will take you through the Transition into the Approach. Punching the Approach button on the autopilot will tell the box to fly the Approach with all the fixes and step downs....as you near decision height, if you need to go Missed, punch the Hdg button on the autopilot and the box will fly the plane to the Missed Hold fix and IF you have WAAS, the box will fly the Hold....if your don't have WAAS, you will have to fly the Hold using the Heading bug. The scan can be focused more intently on the box because it has all pertinent data for the Approach (excludes engine info, however). There are many options which the box gives you for configuration purposes and I won't go into that since the manual does a good job. It would help if an on line simulator was available from Aspen but I haven't found anything yet. The trend for GA is moving toward glass. Whether individuals embrace it or not, the resale value of planes with glass will increasingly pull away from those with steam gauges. The next closest upgrade beyond the Aspen would likely be the Garmin G500 but this involves a new panel and lots more labor which is reflected in the installed price...about 3x's what an Aspen costs to install. Given that my plane is a capable cross country flier, I elected to step up to the Aspen and very happy I did. In my opinion, moving to an Aspen 1000 from a mechanical HSI is the same difference as navigating from using VOR "needles" to using GPS 3 Quote
Danb Posted November 3, 2014 Report Posted November 3, 2014 Now you'll have to start worrying that you'll forget how to fly your plane, see the thread a couple days ago re: computer and stuff in the cockpit or plane...Iv been worrying since reading the thread about my diminished skills...not Enjoy and congrats in joining the latest and best phase of navigation and interpretation so far... 1 Quote
carusoam Posted November 3, 2014 Report Posted November 3, 2014 Resale value? The Aspen can be installed in any plane at any time. The value will be increased by what you paid for the boxes + installation - negotiation... I appreciate that you like your Aspen choice. I just don't see it as a worthy investment. Like most things in GA.... Quote
John Pleisse Posted November 3, 2014 Report Posted November 3, 2014 Careful.....intuitively easy and launching into IMC are two different things. It takes longer than three hours to develop a proper scan. Just because it is all in one place and lit up like a Christmas tree, doesn't mean you have an active scan and by no means should one underestimate omission and fixation. Just because it is glass, doesn't mean it interprets for you. I found pitch display to provide 20x's the accuracy over an RC Allen gyro. Synthetic vision is great for night VFR, but is otherwise clutter. It took me more than three hours to fly confidently. I completely redid my PAC charts. My $.02. Awesome read....thanks for posting. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted November 3, 2014 Report Posted November 3, 2014 Tell me again how to get my investment back? -a- No one in their right mind would consider buying a plane, upgrading a plane, an investment. It may provide extra safety, but you don't have a chance of making money or getting your money's worth. You do it because you want to, personal satisfaction, nothing more. Some are happy with a 50 year old panel, some are not. If it makes you happy, can't ask for anything more 4 Quote
kevinw Posted November 3, 2014 Report Posted November 3, 2014 I've been considering the Aspen PFD for some time now and if my HSI quit on me I'd probably pull the trigger. I wouldn't consider it an investment; I talked to a broker about it once and he said I should expect to get about 50% of the cost back when selling the airplane. He also said the touch of glass might sell it faster. So I guess you chalk the rest of the cost up to the use, safety and enjoyment of your new box. Thanks for posting! Quote
231LV Posted November 3, 2014 Author Report Posted November 3, 2014 Thanks all for the quick reads and comments....let me put a couple of clarifications in...1) I never intended to imply that this was a good investment...there is no such thing in avionics 2) I never intended to imply that 3 hours is adequate for launching into full IMC...its not 3) I did intend to imply that selling a glass airplane will likely be easier than one with steam gauges....all things being equal IMHO Also forgot to mention one thing which is a bit different than how most of us learned...the GS and Loc tapes are up top on the AH, not the HSI.... ...as was mentioned in a post a while back on a similar subject, while most of us are loath to admit we boo boo'd when spending upwards of 12 AMU's, I can honestly say that looking back on the difference between flying the mechanical steam gauge HSI and this new piece of glass, I prefer the piece of glass....at least so far! 2 Quote
John Pleisse Posted November 3, 2014 Report Posted November 3, 2014 Resale value? ........... Yes I would love a full panel redo. That would add capability. Tell me again how to get my investment back? -a- The days of buying, flying and dumping used aircraft for more than you originally paid are long gone, so then it becomes what you want. Oddly, an Aspen makes the most sense in Pre-J short bodies. I wouldn't bat an eye retrofitting an Aspen into a C-model. Non standard panel---fixed, old ratty instruments-----solved, resale----immediate. Aspen $10k= C model panel upgrade ($4k) + HSI-used ($3k)... + > 33% resale back on your Aspen======= Go for it..... 2 Quote
Oscar Avalle Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 I love my Aspen and the "investments" I made into my M20C. I don't think that I will get my money back ever. But on the other hand when I am flying in the soup between montains without ATC guidance, I look at the Aspen PFD and the SVN and at my 750 and I feel that it was the best money spent. Having said that I must say that I am still not confortable using the "tape" altimeter and airspeed indicator. May be it is my eyesight that is getting weak... or may be I am just too used to using the big gages. One issue that I notice that comes up more and more, is the need to remember to adjust the barometer settings. I have the altimeter, ASPEN, altitude alert and Superclock that I have to adjust every time I get a new altimeter setting. Most of the times I remember but sometimes I don't and that creates some issues, in particular around where I fly where I have altimeter settings that go from 30.33 to 29.87 on a 30 min flight. Oscar 2 Quote
Marauder Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 Careful.....intuitively easy and launching into IMC are two different things. It takes longer than three hours to develop a proper scan. Just because it is all in one place and lit up like a Christmas tree, doesn't mean you have an active scan and by no means should one underestimate omission and fixation. Just because it is glass, doesn't mean it interprets for you. I found pitch display to provide 20x's the accuracy over an RC Allen gyro. Synthetic vision is great for night VFR, but is otherwise clutter. It took me more than three hours to fly confidently. I completely redid my PAC charts. My $.02. Awesome read....thanks for posting. The sensitivity of the AI was one thing I needed to "adjust" to. Once I got comfortable with it, it added a whole new layer of precision to my flying. Quote
Marauder Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 Resale value? The Aspen can be installed in any plane at any time. The value will be increased by what you paid for the boxes + installation - negotiation... I appreciate that you like your Aspen choice. I just don't see it as a worthy investment. Like most things in GA.... During negotiations, the buyer will tell me he prefers the G brand. Yes I would love a full panel redo. That would add capability. Tell me again how to get my investment back? Is that why you started this thread? Hopefully you get what you paid for, -a- Anthony -- at some point you will cut open that mattress you have stuffed with all of your avionics upgrade funds. Let me know when, I want to watch! Quote
Marauder Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 Thanks all for the quick reads and comments....let me put a couple of clarifications in...1) I never intended to imply that this was a good investment...there is no such thing in avionics 2) I never intended to imply that 3 hours is adequate for launching into full IMC...its not 3) I did intend to imply that selling a glass airplane will likely be easier than one with steam gauges....all things being equal IMHO Also forgot to mention one thing which is a bit different than how most of us learned...the GS and Loc tapes are up top on the AH, not the HSI.... ...as was mentioned in a post a while back on a similar subject, while most of us are loath to admit we boo boo'd when spending upwards of 12 AMU's, I can honestly say that looking back on the difference between flying the mechanical steam gauge HSI and this new piece of glass, I prefer the piece of glass....at least so far! Just owning an airplane is a bad investment My belief is that you only live once and you should take every chance to enjoy it. 4 Quote
rbridges Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 I'd love to have a panel like some of you guys. Probably out of envy, I have Marauder's panel memorized. Anyway, I can't see myself installing an aspen anytime soon, but I'd like to go that direction when my gauges start needing repair/upkeep. Quote
Marauder Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 Having said that I must say that I am still not confortable using the "tape" altimeter and airspeed indicator. May be it is my eyesight that is getting weak... or may be I am just too used to using the big gages. Oscar Old habits are hard to break and I struggled with the tapes initially as well. What finally got me comfortable was covering the mechanical ones for a few hours. Since you have the mechanicals and seem to prefer them, have you tried turning the tapes off and using it just as an AI? 1 Quote
Guest Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 I too put in an Aspen last year coupled to a 430W and really love it. This year I'm installing an S Tec 50 autopilot to complete the package. I guess now I have to get serious about an instrument rating. Clarence Quote
carusoam Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 Gentlemen, I miss quoted the OP... He mentioned the resale value... In all the excitement, I added to the confusion. I questioned it, then got quoted as if it was my idea... I'm stuffing the mattress waiting for my BK stack to break. Then the decisions get made. I expect I'll be loading up with brand G in the hope that Dr. G wants a long body from NJ. Does any Aspen equipment come up for sale on the used market? Swing and a miss, -a- This is the part I didn't buy into... "The trend for GA is moving toward glass. Whether individuals embrace it or not, the resale value of planes with glass will increasingly pull away from those with steam gauges." 1 Quote
chrisk Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 I also have an Aspen Pro. It took several hours of flying with it before I really began to feel competent with it. As far as an investment. I wanted a backup AI and GPSS. The electric AIs were some where around $2500. The ST901 GPSS module now sells for around $2000. My HSI was kind of old, but worth some money on the used market. From this perspective, an ASPEN made sense. 1 Quote
cliffy Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 The transition from steam gauges in a 727 to an "Aspen" like display in the 757 was very difficult for many old timers. Notably the FMC was a bigger issue than the glass but the glass had its issues with many also. Took some time to transition to being comfortable. All in all I preferred it to the Airbus 320 display. If I could I'd go Aspen. 1 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 I thought Aspens have a dubious reputation for quality and reliability, they may be pretty, but if they break, I'm sure they are expensive to fix 1 Quote
PTK Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 I thought Aspens have a dubious reputation for quality and reliability, they may be pretty, but if they break, I'm sure they are expensive to fixThere's no "fixing" these. They're disposable. They'll ship you out another...if they can find one. Compare the value and the horizon of a King HSI (a few decades and counting) to that of an Aspen or G500! Which reminds me: There's "pretty" there's "serious" and there's "pretty serious" It's a matter of priorities. Take your pick! ...The trend for GA is moving toward glass. Whether individuals embrace it or not, the resale value of planes with glass will increasingly pull away from those with steam gauges...I don't think so! I respect and congratulate you on your choice. Enjoy! Quote
Marauder Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 There's no "fixing" these. They're disposable. They'll ship you out another...if they can find one. Compare the value and the horizon of a King HSI (a few decades and counting) to that of an Aspen or G500! Which reminds me: There's "pretty"image.jpg there's "serious" image.jpg and there's "pretty serious" image.jpg It's a matter of priorities. Take your pick! I don't think so! I respect and congratulate you on your choice. Enjoy! Good morning Peter Garmin. Good to see you are up early throwing criticisms. 3 Quote
Marauder Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 I thought Aspens have a dubious reputation for quality and reliability, they may be pretty, but if they break, I'm sure they are expensive to fix 2 year factory warranty. Extend the factory warranty for 2 more years for $795. Exchange of a non working unit for a factory refurbished unit $1,500 (with latest updates of the firmware). Quote
PTK Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 ...Good to see you are up early throwing criticisms. Criticism is the activity of making careful analysis and judgments about the good and bad qualities. It's a good thing. Not being able to take it is not! And you can't take it! Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 It's not so much that the glass-equipped airplanes "pull away" in value, it's that the non 430 or better GPS aircraft drop like a rock. And the old airplanes with glass sell faster. 1 Quote
chrisk Posted November 4, 2014 Report Posted November 4, 2014 It's not so much that the glass-equipped airplanes "pull away" in value, it's that the non 430 or better GPS aircraft drop like a rock. And the old airplanes with glass sell faster. I totally get why too. My home airport has 4 approaches. They are all GPS. The next closest airport has 2 approaches, both are GPS. Going to the next airport, it has 2 approaches also. 1 GPS, one VOR/DME. So, the three closest airports have Zero approaches available for a dual VOR / ILS equipped plane (no DME). And it's going to cost $15K minimum to put in a WAAS GPS. --Which you are going to want with the 2020 ADSB mandate. For me at least, an Aspen is reasonably far down on my list. And I own an Aspen and like it. Good Radios Auto Pilot WAAS GPS ADSB out Engine Monitor Fuel Totalizer Tablet with moving map. ASPEN HSI (Not needed with Aspen) GPSS (Not needed with Aspen) ADSB in 406 ELT with GPS AOA 2 Quote
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