Joe Zuffoletto Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Posted September 3, 2014 Here's one thing to consider. I don't know what avionics Joe has in his Acclaim, but it could be that they need a plane with the G1000/S-TEC 55x combo to use for certification testing so they can finally get this configuration WAAS certified. That would be very good news to many of us. Mine has the G1000/GFC700 combo. Lease it if they pay for all the tail repairs. (I'm guessing they already are paying for parts hopefully) It would also be nice to see their lease agreement. Parts are covered and Arapahoe Aero tells me that the labor is minimal. Quote
hoppetool Posted September 4, 2014 Report Posted September 4, 2014 The Mooney service bulletin indicates that they're paying for parts and a defined amount of labor. Daytona aircraft says it'll take more than that which Mooney says it will but perhaps that's just because they haven't done one yet. I suggest reading the AD note and Mooney SB to familiarize yourself. I phoned Mooney Chino yesterday but received no return call. Quote
Joe Zuffoletto Posted September 4, 2014 Author Report Posted September 4, 2014 The Mooney service bulletin indicates that they're paying for parts and a defined amount of labor. Daytona aircraft says it'll take more than that which Mooney says it will but perhaps that's just because they haven't done one yet. I suggest reading the AD note and Mooney SB to familiarize yourself. I phoned Mooney Chino yesterday but received no return call. Scott Utz at Arapahoe Aero walked me through the AD and SB and the biggest $$$ risk is how much repainting will need to be done afterwards. Mooney covers pretty much everything else. If we can simply touch up the rivets then it will cost very little. If we need to repaint the affected body panel then for my plane it will be about $500. I'm exchanging emails with Mooney Chino, trying to get more info about the lease. Quote
carusoam Posted September 4, 2014 Report Posted September 4, 2014 MODELS/ SN AFFECTED: TIME OF COMPLIANCE: INTRODUCTION: INSTRUCTIONS: Outboard Empennage Attach Fittings on some production M20R and M20TN Aircraft and procured through Mooney Service Parts. Mooney M20R - Serial Numbers 29-0513 thru 29-0519 Mooney M20TN - Serial Numbers 31-0101 thru 31-0127 Procured Parts - Serial Numbers M20M 27-0057, M20R 29-0141, M20C 2313, M20E 761 WITHIN NEXT 10 HOURS OF FLIGHT Quote
hoppetool Posted September 14, 2014 Report Posted September 14, 2014 Mooney says they'll pay $175/hr for a 20/hr per mo lease for 6 mo. No loss value comp for damage to your A/C and $150/hr for time above 20 hrs/mo. Just the cost of the money is worth more than they're offering to keep the A/C full time and fly it. The terms would need to be far better to make it worthwhile. Oh, and you get the privilege of paying for repairs if needed. Bandits! Quote
carusoam Posted September 14, 2014 Report Posted September 14, 2014 Depends upon your negotiation skills... Best regards, -a- Quote
Piloto Posted September 14, 2014 Report Posted September 14, 2014 Just as a comparison here are rental rates for C172s and others. www.airassociatesinc.com/aircraft/rental/ And a C172 sells for less than half of an Acclaim. José 1 Quote
Bob_Belville Posted September 14, 2014 Report Posted September 14, 2014 Are the AA rates "wet"? Quote
aviatoreb Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 Mooney says they'll pay $175/hr for a 20/hr per mo lease for 6 mo. No loss value comp for damage to your A/C and $150/hr for time above 20 hrs/mo. Just the cost of the money is worth more than they're offering to keep the A/C full time and fly it. The terms would need to be far better to make it worthwhile. Oh, and you get the privilege of paying for repairs if needed. Bandits! Mooney is delirious and they are low-balling you insultingly big time. 1 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 Are the AA rates "wet"? AA's are wet, still a little high at that, and obviously Mooney's would have to be dry. But if they used it 20hrs/mon, that would be a cool $42000, problem is the repairs, I would make them pay for all repairs and also write into the contract that they pay for a annual at the end, all squawks will be repaired on their dime. The cash you make would end up having to pay for wear & tear.... Quote
aaronk25 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 And depreciation.......ok I'll match mooney's deal if any of you guys want to lease your acclaim to me 1 Quote
hoppetool Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 Made counter-offer and they said no thanks. What's that say about the perceived value of the airplanes their selling? Quote
carusoam Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 What that says is there is likely a better offer elsewhere... No more, no less. Since they can build one every other month.... What is the cost of them using an Acclaim of their own? It would take an unusually large sum of money for me to lease out my favorite machinery... Emotional attachment, makes for clouded business decisions... If you don't have clouded business decisions... You can base your lease arrangement on a simple ROI or cost+ method... How did you base your offer? One thing we know about the new Mooney company, they understand finance! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
KSMooniac Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 They wrecked my friend's Ovation in 2007 and had to eat the costs because their own pilot didn't meet any insurance requirements. Guess they don't want to burn themselves again with that repair clause? No thanks Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk Quote
Ftlausa Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 They cannot believe that is a serious rental rate for an Acclaim. Plus no indemnification for damage or repairs. No way, no how. 1 Quote
hoppetool Posted October 2, 2014 Report Posted October 2, 2014 What that says is there is likely a better offer elsewhere... No more, no less. Since they can build one every other month.... What is the cost of them using an Acclaim of their own? It would take an unusually large sum of money for me to lease out my favorite machinery... Emotional attachment, makes for clouded business decisions... If you don't have clouded business decisions... You can base your lease arrangement on a simple ROI or cost+ method... How did you base your offer? One thing we know about the new Mooney company, they understand finance! Best regards, -a- No emotions here, I'm happy to buy another airplane while they use the Mooney and sell it afterward. The calculation on value of the lease rate is mathematical only - emotionless. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted October 2, 2014 Report Posted October 2, 2014 What's next on the acquisition list? Newer TN? Or twin? Or turbine? The Mooney lease back is a unique opportunity. It just isn't for everybody. It would fit really well for somebody with a TN that is looking to move on. What would keep you from selling to one of Mooney's potential customers? That is a risk that Mooney has by using somebody else's plane to do direct sales work. Best regards, -a- Quote
hoppetool Posted October 7, 2014 Report Posted October 7, 2014 What's next on the acquisition list? Newer TN? Or twin? Or turbine? The Mooney lease back is a unique opportunity. It just isn't for everybody. It would fit really well for somebody with a TN that is looking to move on. What would keep you from selling to one of Mooney's potential customers? That is a risk that Mooney has by using somebody else's plane to do direct sales work. Best regards, -a- Looking to move up to a twin so the lease works at the right price. Fact is, it's probably best to just sell the M20TN and move up afterward. I offered Mooney that option at a reasonable market value but they declined. I really like the Mooney and will probably keep flying it for a while before making any moves unless something interesting comes along or a buyer at the right price. Quote
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