Money burning hole in pocket-

[Amelia]

Otherwise, why would I be considering spending yet more money on this foolish hobby?

Here's the thing: I've just about had it with my EI-UBG-16 engine monitor. I've spent a fortune with half a dozen different mechanics and shops, highly regarded people, all. I've spent a lot of time on the phone with EI's truly nice tech support people. And still, the thing isn't reliable. Keeps breaking those tiny leads, and even when those appear OK,  giving faulty, erratic readings on one cylinder in particular.

Anybody got a JPI 730/830? I'm hoping to find something that will withstand whatever is breaking the little wires on the current gadget.

And what about GAMIjectors? Worth the thousand bucks in a Mooney 231? I've been timid about flying LOP because I don't really trust the engine monitor I currently have, but might be worth doing.

[donshapansky]

I've had an EDM 700 in a Super Viking for 1000 hrs and had one EGT probe fail in that time. In the current Rocket I fly with an EDM 930 I've had one CHT probe fail, I thought it was a probe failure but it turned out to be a rubbed through lead to the probe. My experience in the Rocket is over 600 hrs in the past 2 yrs.

I have the OEM TIT gauge by ECI in the Rocket now disabled due to so many probe failures of the TIT system. I don't know if that is a fair comparison but 3 probes changed out in 150 hrs was enough for me to pull the breaker to the gauge an let it rest in peace.

 

Rergards:

Don

[Geoff]

Amelia,

I have a GEM 603 with a harness, but no probes I just removed from my 231.  Thing is the TIT display doesnt show the numbers, I always used by anolog guage for that anyway.  The bar graphs for CHT and EGT are fine and the LF function works fine.  Let me know if you are interested.

On GAMI, I have been poking around that idea as well.  I did the lean test on my last flight and found a 0.9 gph difference between the first and last cylinder to peak.  Not horrible but not optimal either.  So far I can run LOP without roughness.  I talked to the guys at GAMI, who are great, and they said the main benefit of the injectors is to run smooth LOP.  I figure if I can run smooth LOP why spend the $?  My suggestion is that once you get your engine monitor situation fixed, do the lean test they have on their website to see if you can operate your engine smoothly LOP and go from there.

Geoff Reid

[KSMooniac]

Amelia, with a turbo Mooney I would say both "upgrades" are well worth the money.  I will never own a plane without an engine monitor (that works!) and I would also make sure any plane I own runs smoothly LOP (carb'd engines excepted).  If you can get your K to run LOP reliably, you can quickly "pay for" the cost of the GAMIjectors if they are needed to run LOP in your plane.  You can truly run at the same power levels on much less fuel going LOP in a turbo...perhaps save as much as 2-3 GPH for equivalent power.  Figure that saves $8-15 per hour and you'll be ahead after 66-125 hours depending on fuel costs.

My JPI EDM-700 with fuel flow has been a champ.  The previous owner installed it, and there is perhaps ~800 hours on the installation with no issues besides a faulty display that was fixed under warranty.  I expect the newer -730/830 will have no issues with the more modern display, and I'm slightly tempted to upgrade mine to that configuration.  I'm waiting for OSH to see about any specials before I jump, though.  Their products work very, very well IMO and I can recommend them without reservation.

If your burning hole is a bit larger, then you might consider one of the latest all-in-one primary replacement monitors that would allow you to liberate all of the vintage gauges/probes/senders etc. and get a nice, accurate, reliable box.  EI, JPI, Auracle are options in this market, but it might require some substantial panel surgery.  I would love one of these, but I'm waiting until/if/when I do a glass PFD upgrade b/c I figure I'll do a full custom panel at that point and combine the work.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: Amelia

Anybody got a JPI 730/830? I'm hoping to find something that will withstand whatever is breaking the little wires on the current gadget.

And what about GAMIjectors? Worth the thousand bucks in a Mooney 231? I've been timid about flying LOP because I don't really trust the engine monitor I currently have, but might be worth doing.

[M016576]

I have the EDM-830 (with all the options (FF, etc)) in my M20J and I absolutely love it.  The display is crisp and easy to read, all the parameters have the typical green bands you're used to seeing for your ships gauges and the alert functions (if the rpm, oil temp, oil press... even a "shock cooling" alarm) are out of parameters are effective at warning you of potential problems.  The manual comes with a troubleshooting matrix that shows diagrams of what certain motor problems look like, the cause, and actions to take if you find yourself in those situations (ie stuck valve, fouled mag, etc).  The display also comes with a USB port and a memory stick.  You plug it in, it dumps either new data or all stored data to the memory stick, then you plug it into the JPI program on your PC and it gives you a running display of the entire flight!  It includes a rich of peak mode and a lean of peak mode that help you to set your engine how you want it.  I've used both functions and they are easy to use.  The LOP mode is particularly nice, in that it shows the difference from peak for EACH cylinder, instead of an overall readout of total EGT's and CHT's (although you can switch back to that format if you'd like, some people on the forum said they use the ROP function to fly LOP, which would work just fine, too.

Bottom line:  I highly recommend it.  If you're going to add a single instrument to a stock aircraft, it should be a high end engine monitor (JMHO).

-Job

[mooneykflyer]

I have an Electronics International engine monitor that does a great job. I also have GAMI installed.

While I personally don't fly LOP, both are an excellent investment.

[FlyingAggie]

My plane has a JPI 700, but it may be one of the first models, because it doesn't seem to have the Lean Find Lean-L mode.  Also the step button jams in at times and you have to try to grab it and pull it out to get it to step.  I want to find out about upgrading it to either a 730 or 830 with fuel flow.  I am hoping there will be some deals at Oshkosh.

Currently my plane has a Hoskins Fuel Flow Meter (FT001?).  So for those 231/252/262 drivers, who have added FF to a JPI, what did you do with the Hoskins? Did you keep both?  Can you use the Hoskins sending unit with the JPI?

Alan

 

[drpep]

I also have recently installed a JPI 830 Check my photo album for pics. I replaced the JPI 700 with fuel flow at an exchange price of $1200. Installation cost me about $1000. It works terrific and I find I am able to at a glance monitor my engine and fuel flow. Well worth the cost from my perch

Philip

[Cruiser]

Quote: drpep

I also have recently installed a JPI 830 Check my photo album for pics. I replaced the JPI 700 with fuel flow at an exchange price of $1200. Installation cost me about $1000. It works terrific and I find I am able to at a glance monitor my engine and fuel flow. Well worth the cost from my perch

Philip

[flyby201]

I've had an EDM-700 in my 201 for sa couple of years.  It was installed immediately after my last major overhaul.  I had 1 cylinder which ran really hot (well over 400 deg in normal cruise).  This caused me to explore LOP operations (GAMI spread was 0.3 without GAMI injectors) and I now run all cylinders in the 360 deg neighborhood on about 9 GPH.  Not only am I saving on fuel costs, but my engine will likely run longer before next OH because to the lower temps.  I would never have known about the high temp on this one cylinder because the stock probe wasn't on it.

Besides all the other advantages of an engine monitor, I find the FF function gives me peace of mind because of it's accurancy.  I compare fuel used vs actual on every long trip I take and it is consistently right on (within 0.2 gallons over a 3 hour flight).  You have to adjust the K factor a couple of times to get it well calibrated.

[testwest]

We have had an EDM-700 with fuel flow in our M20J for years now. Agree 100% with Scott S on how essential a good engine analyzer is. Most bang for the buck for you, Amelia, is to go with an EDM-730 with fuel flow. Attached is a picture of two EDM-730s side by side in our Aerostar.

Is your 231 intercooled or does it have the Merlyn wastegate or any other mods? Our Aerostar is intercooled/turbonormalized, and I added CDT (compressor discharge temp) and IAT (induction air temp) along with TITs on both turbos to the EDM.

[231Pilot]

Quote: flyby201

I've had an EDM-700 in my 201 for sa couple of years.  It was installed immediately after my last major overhaul.  I had 1 cylinder which ran really hot (well over 400 deg in normal cruise).  

[testwest]

The other thing to check is if one of the JPI probes is the "under the spark plug" type instead of the bayonet style. EDM-700s (and up) are approved as primary replacement instruments for CHTs, but for a lot of Mooney drivers the one factory CHT is in a linear cluster gauge and it looks a little "kludgy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kludge) to have an INOP sticker on one of the five factory gauges if the primary CHT function is hopped over to the JPI.

So the original bayonet CHT is retained and a spark plug JPI probe is installed on that cylinder (which is typically the hottest cylinder, that's why the factory probe is there). JPI data suggest that spark plug probes typically read higher than bayonets, so they have this nifty solution:

http://buyjpi.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=5050A&Category_Code=

I bought one of these for 201JX and plan to install it soon on our #3 cylinder. Right now the JPI says #3 is a little too warm in climb (395 deg F, less than 380 is really a desireable goal for many reasons) but the factory CHT is OK (with what little resolution it provides)...leading me to believe the #3 JPI spark plug probe is reading falsely high.

[231Pilot]

Quote: testwest

The other thing to check is if one of the JPI probes is the "under the spark plug" type instead of the bayonet style. EDM-700s (and up) are approved as primary replacement instruments for CHTs, but for a lot of Mooney drivers the one factory CHT is in a linear cluster gauge and it looks a little "kludgy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kludge) to have an INOP sticker on one of the five factory gauges if the primary CHT function is hopped over to the JPI.

So the original bayonet CHT is retained and a spark plug JPI probe is installed on that cylinder (which is typically the hottest cylinder, that's why the factory probe is there). JPI data suggest that spark plug probes typically read higher than bayonets, so they have this nifty solution:

http://buyjpi.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=5050A&Category_Code=

I bought one of these for 201JX and plan to install it soon on our #3 cylinder. Right now the JPI says #3 is a little too warm in climb (395 deg F, less than 380 is really a desireable goal for many reasons) but the factory CHT is OK (with what little resolution it provides)...leading me to believe the #3 JPI spark plug probe is reading falsely high.