Glassair announces new LSA starting at $149950 !

[Sabremech]

I'd like to think that LSA market could or would help increase the pilot population but once again an LSA starting at $150K? Who can afford this for a sub performing aircraft? What are your thoughts on LSA and are they worth it or not?

 David

 

[Danb]

Does not seem like they will grow the pilot population with entry cost's outrageous. You can't pay for the low use avfuel due to the cost of admission!

[KSMooniac]

Without even seeing the specs or a pic, I predict failure.  The costs are too high, and performance too low, and the restrictions too strict to create durable planes with any reasonable performance.

[carusoam]

I would compare that to what else is available for the same price.

Somebody had posted an Ovation with higher engine time for sale here recently.

I would prefer the used O over the new LSA.

Seats four, flies in IMC, and goes really fast.

But that's just me....,

-a-

[scottfromiowa]

I would prefer an M20E and a house on a golf course in Arkansas. Maybe others with that kind of discretionary cash think it would be fun. I could see getting a couple of partners and buying a NEW J performance plane for $150k...At least you would get more useful load and strength/build quality. An LSA?...NOPE.

[bonal]

The connection between the LSA certificate and the LS aircraft is a subject that gives me fits. The manufactures pushed for the 1320 GW to keep cessna 150 and piper 140's as well as skippers and tomahawk aircraft from fitting the spec. If you want to bring in new pilots you need to keep the price of admission low enough to bring them in. A C150 is the perfect light sport 2 seater can't go faster than 110 and a good one can be found for well under 20 grand. Not to mention they are fun little airplanes and you can beat the crap out of them and they keep on flying. Increase the GW to 1600 and see if more future pilots start their LS training.

[aviatoreb]

LSA does one thing that normal category does not - it lets those who cannot get a medical keep flying - as long as they are not denied the medical.  That is quite a valid reason to get an LSA.  I cannot see much other reason in sales terms for this category, and surely the entire LSA concept will evaporate if when the new drivers license medical comes about.

[N33GG]

As above post states, these planes are attractive to those that can no longer get a medical, and want to fly something better than an ultralight, legally. Being an old guy, an LSA is probably in my near future, and I appreciate the option. But, however, these $150K and up LSA's are not in my future. I have too many other things I would rather spend my money on! Perhaps a Champ or Cub for me, and either would be fine flying. Niether of these is a Mooney of course, but I would be in the air nonetheless. I guess old guys that need the LSA option with lots of extra cash, and maybe wanting to show it, well maybe the $150K and up birds make sense. If it works for them, great. But never for me.

[DaV8or]

The connection between the LSA certificate and the LS aircraft is a subject that gives me fits. The manufactures pushed for the 1320 GW to keep cessna 150 and piper 140's as well as skippers and tomahawk aircraft from fitting the spec. If you want to bring in new pilots you need to keep the price of admission low enough to bring them in. A C150 is the perfect light sport 2 seater can't go faster than 110 and a good one can be found for well under 20 grand. Not to mention they are fun little airplanes and you can beat the crap out of them and they keep on flying. Increase the GW to 1600 and see if more future pilots start their LS training.

 

Actually, it wasn't the manufacturers that kept the gross weight low, it was the FAA. The manufacturers would absolutely love a higher gross weight. The widely touted reason for Light Sport is to create more pilots, but the real reason was to finally put an end to the people cheating with "fat" ultralights. Ultralights by regulation in this country have a very low gross weight limit (to lazy to look it up right now) and a single seat limitation. Many in that community complained that without the second seat, proper training wasn't possible and there were too many accidents. The FAA relented a bit and allowed the creation of two seat versions with higher gross weight provisions to be used for training only.

 

Well, as soon as the two seat versions were available lots and lots of people bought them and operated them for (wink, wink) "training purposes". The FAA got sick of people cheating, so they created the light sport category. This provided a way for legitimate ultralight training to continue and at the same time, make enforcement of the rules easy. The gross weight limitations are based on the specs for heavy ultralights with a bump to make it plausible to create a plane that carries to American sized people in an enclosed cockpit. They basically wanted it as light as possible to limit liability. Much of the research was based on what was already going on overseas. This is why so many of the offerings a foreign. They were already making planes close to this spec.

 

I have many suggestions on how to adjust the light sport regs to actually increase and maintain the pilot population, but that is topic for another thread perhaps.

[DaV8or]

One must remember, the $150,000 LSA today is the $80,000 tomorrow. Depreciation is a bitch and new airplanes of all types sink like a rock. The used LSA market may not be all that expensive IF they can actually sell some today.

[Comatose]

The really exciting thing about light sport is the use of non-certificated avionics and parts. The prices on said avionics, instruments, autopilots and the like actually... make sense. Not at all like what we pay to garmin for the TSO versions. Also, the use of off the shelf parts. 

 

Because, lets be very honest. Our $2000 fuel pumps, magnetos and the like are the very best that the automotive world of the 1950s had to offer. Back in those heady days, the aircraft manufacturers often just bought the same parts. But now they're codified specialty items and the only idiots who still want repair parts for a 1959 Chevelle are classic car guys, us, and 5000 guys in Cuba. 

 

If they'd just expand that portion of the regs to all single engine piston, we'd see a second blossoming of GA. Light sport is too limited to be enticing. 

[Sabremech]

"The really exciting thing about light sport is the use of non-certificated avionics and parts."

 

 Well, that's called an experimental and you can sure build or buy a much more capable airplane for the $150K putt putt. None of the new overpriced LSA's are exciting, they're just overpriced.

 

  The only real impact that LSA has had, is keeping people flying who may have a questionable medical condition that would otherwise disqualify them from flying. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but we don't have all kinds of Cubs, Champs, etc falling out of the sky.

 

 The whole marketing campaign of the LSA and how it will reduce the cost of becoming a pilot and flying still irks me when I see prices like the new Glassair LSA. Where's the reduced cost when you'll have to have another mortgage to afford this kite?

 

 I could purchase 4 more Mooney M20C's like the one I have now for the price of 1 Glassair LSA !

 

 David

[N33GG]

If you want to see where the LSA came from, look at Europe. If you want to see where GA is going in the USA, look at Europe. If GA survives here, I think LSA will play a pretty big role.

[Sabremech]

At $150K and Rotax power, I'm out if that's the direction we're headed. I don't fly in anything with a Rotax in it !!

 

 David

[DaV8or]

I think if there's one thing that LSA have proven, is that the FAA certification regulations aren't the only thing making new airplanes expensive. Even if you could magically strip away legal liability, the fact remains that airplanes are labor intensive to build, require specialized equipment and do not appeal to a wide range of buyers, forever making them a low volume exotic product. The only reason we now have a situation were pilots can go around proclaiming "For that much money I could getta...!" is that GA has shrunk dramatically from it's peak in the 1970s and there is a glut of unwanted used airplanes out there. There are far more available airplanes then there are pilots wanting to own them.

 

Low cost airplanes are not all we need to revitalize GA. We have low cost airplanes. Lots of them. They are proving to not inspire new pilot starts at all. People say, "If we only had $50,000 LSAs, or $200,000 M20Js, GA would really be reborn" and I say bull. As the owners on the forums here can attest, the acquisition price is the tiny piece of the pilot/owner puzzle. Maintaining and keeping the airplane as well the pilot up to standard is the real challenge and expense. Bottom line is, it's a lot of money and personal effort for very limited utility. American consumers have wised up. There are more effective ways to enjoy their money.

 

What really would bring about a rebirth of light, private GA would be new technology that we don't have yet. We need new power plants and we need avionics with far greater capability than we have today. The airplanes of tomorrow need to be safer, more reliable and way, way easier to fly. I envision this day to happen when somebody, somewhere, finally cracks the nut of how to either store, or generate high density electricity for our cars. On that day, the age of the electric airplane will begin and GA reborn. For now, we wait...

[N33GG]

Right you are Dave! The reason we fly such great airplanes is because we can. Supply far outpaces demand. Just try to manufacture a Mooney C today for less than a quarter million. They aren't making any more Cessna 150's, Piper Tamahawks, or Beech Skippers for training. Our fleet is aging rapidly, and not being replenished. Except for high end models, read that expensive models, that is. What, other than LSA, is there to fill the void for the future?

Want, rather, and prefer are great, when you have the option. The options may be more limited in the future when the fleet has aged and dwindled, not to mention regulated out of operation. A $150K LSA alternative may not look that bad, if that is all there is. For my sake, I sure hope the prices go down soon!

I think LSA must succeed for the future of GA to continue in this country. Just my 2 cents though...

[Sabremech]

The future of GA isn't LSA but will be / is the experimental aircraft. I sure won't spend anywhere near $150K on any airplane with a Rotax etc. I''m building an airplane now with an O-320 and will have less than $30K in it. 2000lb gross weight, a real airplane with real capabilities.

I think LSA new manufacture is going to fade. The prices aren't sustainable for any amount of sales. Just my .02.

[N601RX]

When most people think light sport they think of the factory built models, but they are also many experimental that qualify as a light sport. Some of the companies are selling both kits and finished planes. They have a very active builder base. So while the factory built models may be overpriced and not many selling, the kit segment of this industry is doing quite well. Many of these can be built for around 30K if you build on a budget.

[Mcstealth]

The two LSA's I would even consider if I was to purchase one. Bristell, and RV12. Each of these seem to hit the best balance of the performance Regs that are in place. You can actually put two persons in them with full tanks and go somewhere. And their wings are in the right place.

David

[PTK]

Looking strictly at cost, it is absurd! If Cessna's Scott Ernest declared the Skycatcher has "no future" at that price point what is Glassair thinking?

RV12 anyone?!

[N33GG]

Several of the RV models are awesome. They fly great too. Might be on my short list for the future...

[Sabremech]

The RV's are fantastic machines and are the Mooney of the experimental world. Best bang for the buck like a Mooney.

 

 David