AOA installation

[aviatoreb]

The greatest amount of time was spent routing and securing the tubes from the wing mounted unit through the front edge of the wing into the cabin. Some of it was clearing a spot to put it in the panel.

Erik, unless your unit is different than mine, I doubt the electronic box was mounted in the tail. It has the tubes going to it, and it wouldn't make much sense to run those tubes back there from the wing. 

 

Oh - could be that detail I remembered wrong.

But otherwise, yes same - leading tubes and wires through the wings is a job.

[mikerocosm]

It'll be awhile before I receive my AOA indicator, let alone get it installed, but in the meantime, I read in the installation instructions that it needs to be mounted no further back than 4" from the leading edge of the wing:

 

 

2.2.1 Mechanical
... The vane probe must be mounted as far forward under the wing as possible (no more than 4 inches aft of the wing leading edge).

 

My inspection panels are somewhere around 16 inches behind the leading edge, and I originally had it in mind to attach to one of those. Now I'm not so sure.

 

Somewhere in this thread, someone claimed to have mounted it to an inspection panel, but that must have been on a different model of Mooney than mine . . . or maybe not.

 

So, question for the group, or more likely to Rip:

 

What do you think?

[DonMuncy]

What AOA are you referring to? The Alpha Systems specifies between 10 and 90% of the mean aerodynamic chord.

[mikerocosm]

Clearly, I should have been more clear . . . I bought one of the CYA-100 Units heavily discussed in this thread. The manual I've quoted is the one for that unit.

[David Mazer]

It'll be awhile before I receive my AOA indicator, let alone get it installed, but in the meantime, I read in the installation instructions that it needs to be mounted no further back than 4" from the leading edge of the wing:

 

 

2.2.1 Mechanical

... The vane probe must be mounted as far forward under the wing as possible (no more than 4 inches aft of the wing leading edge).

 

My inspection panels are somewhere around 16 inches behind the leading edge, and I originally had it in mind to attach to one of those. Now I'm not so sure.

 

Somewhere in this thread, someone claimed to have mounted it to an inspection panel, but that must have been on a different model of Mooney than mine . . . or maybe not.

 

So, question for the group, or more likely to Rip:

 

What do you think?

I'm the one with the CYA-100 installation on the inspection panel.  Rip was surprised it was far enough forward but it works great and it is just about 4" from the leading edge.  You can see pictures at:

 

CYA-100 AOA

[DaV8or]

It'll be awhile before I receive my AOA indicator, let alone get it installed, but in the meantime, I read in the installation instructions that it needs to be mounted no further back than 4" from the leading edge of the wing:

 

 

2.2.1 Mechanical

... The vane probe must be mounted as far forward under the wing as possible (no more than 4 inches aft of the wing leading edge).

 

My inspection panels are somewhere around 16 inches behind the leading edge, and I originally had it in mind to attach to one of those. Now I'm not so sure.

 

Somewhere in this thread, someone claimed to have mounted it to an inspection panel, but that must have been on a different model of Mooney than mine . . . or maybe not.

 

So, question for the group, or more likely to Rip:

 

What do you think?

 

I think you would be hard pressed to find any GA planes where it would be easy to mount 4" from the leading edge.

[rq3]

CYA-100 Shipment Update:

I have built enough units to fill orders to date BUT, the urethane potting compound I use for the display can't

be shipped in freezing confitions. My supplier thinks we have a window of opportunity this week, so I'll be

shipping later this week if all goes well.

 

Thanks,

Rip

[DaV8or]

CYA-100 Shipment Update:

I have built enough units to fill orders to date BUT, the urethane potting compound I use for the display can't

be shipped in freezing confitions. My supplier thinks we have a window of opportunity this week, so I'll be

shipping later this week if all goes well.

 

Thanks,

Rip

 

So... what happens when your airplane sits on the ramp, or in the hangar over night and it goes below freezing?

[rq3]

So... what happens when your airplane sits on the ramp, or in the hangar over night and it goes below freezing?

Someone else asked this exact question. The urethane comes in two parts, like epoxy. The two liquids can't be allowed to freeze, but once they're mixed

and cured into solid urethane it's good from -72C to +200C.

 

Rip

[rq3]

I shipped 12 CYA-100 today via UPS ground. Although this group didn't quite make the 10 for the discount, between this group, the Husky group, and Back Country Pilots enough orders came in that I am honoring the 10% discount for anyone who ordered during the month of January 2014. Rebate checks are included in the shipment.

 

At this point my printed circuit fabricator is back-ordered until Feb. 19, so remaining shipments will go out at the end of February.

 

Thank you everyone!

Rip

[WardHolbrook]

I ran across this AoA Primer. It's one of the best explanations I've seen.

 

[RocketAviator]

I shipped 12 CYA-100 today via UPS ground. Although this group didn't quite make the 10 for the discount, between this group, the Husky group, and Back Country Pilots enough orders came in that I am honoring the 10% discount for anyone who ordered during the month of January 2014. Rebate checks are included in the shipment.

 

At this point my printed circuit fabricator is back-ordered until Feb. 19, so remaining shipments will go out at the end of February.

 

Thank you everyone!

Rip

Rip if you have someone who needs one quick I am in no hurry I can ship mine I have not opened the box, guess I better if there is a check in the box. Your sure welcome to mine if you need or want it.

Lacee

[David Mazer]

Ward, your post doesn't seem to want to load.  Got a web address?

Am I still the only Mooney installation?  Someone else has to have tried this too.  Where are the pireps?

[WardHolbrook]

Ward, your post doesn't seem to want to load.  Got a web address?

Am I still the only Mooney installation?  Someone else has to have tried this too.  Where are the pireps?

It's on YouTube. Just search for Icon Angle of Attack and you'll get it.

[M016576]

I ran across this AoA Primer. It's one of the best explanations I've seen.

 

I love that area (kernville / Lake Isabella). Beautiful country (and a great airport!)

[DonMuncy]

David,

If you are talking about the CYA, you may be the only one so far. I have my Alpha Systems unit installed, but am still waiting for the weather and me and my avionics guy to get our schedules synchronized to get it calibrated.

[BobAustin]

I also am like Don Muncy waiting to get weather and avionics folks lined up...still need to get my new JPI 830 calibrated first.

[rq3]

To All;

The printed circuit boards arrived today, so I am madly assembling units to fill outstanding orders. Thanks to everyone for their patience! All other parts are in hand, so I WILL be shipping over the next 2 weeks (max).

 

Early in February I filed paperwork with the FAA to comply with their new AoA memorandum, and hopefully with have official FAA blessing soon, for those of you who may have IA's uncomfortable with a simple log book entry as a minor modification. The FAA is very hot to see these things, from whatever manufacturer, in action. I am hopeful that they respond quickly.

 

I had a customer in Canada who was unhappy with the vane action. He very kindly sent me photographs, and in response I am modifying the design of the vane/magnet assembly. It will be invisible to the end user, but feedback from customers is critical to the success of any product, and I welcome any input!

 

Fly Safe,

Rip

[wishboneash]

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsid=15714

[DonMuncy]

I got my Alpha Systems AOA calibrated. I have not flown with it enough to give a good pirep yet, but did learn enough to give some help to others installing the Alpha System. It is probably not of enough interest to use up everyone's time, but if anyone plans on installing the Alpha, contact me.

Incidentally, the information I have received is that when the FAA "approves" a system, it is a requirement that the manufacturer dictate that the calibration be done to 1.3 VSO. Apparently they don't want them set on the "stall". Probably because the calibration involves punching buttons and pushing buttons while stalling might not be the safest thing in the world.

A second calibration point is set at 1.9 VSO.

The Alpha System (at least the one I got) has a series of green lights, a series of yellow lights, a blue light and a series of red ones, in a circular pattern like an analog gauge.

When powered up, it goes through a self test, blinking all the lights and sounding an audible alert.

Then, all the lights go out.

In flight (above 1.9 VSO, all the lights are also out. When slowing, at 1.9, all the lights come on, then go out one at a time, down through the greens, then the yellows and at 1.3, the blue light and all the reds are still illuminated.

Continued slowing shuts off the blue, and then the reds successively.

It appears that depending on precisely where the calibration button was pushed, the stall buffet starts about "two reds out", and the nose starts to drop at about 3.

At first I was a little put out that the lights stay on, rather than coming on individually and successively, as I would have expected. After thinking about it, I think that might not be such a bad deal, as you don't have to focus and see which particular light is on.

My belief is that one would now use the ASI for gear, flaps, never exceed, etc. but will disregard it for pattern and landing. Naturally, I expect a learning curve on "which lights for what part of the pattern" and when on final you want to move through blue.

[David Mazer]

I didn't realize, ever see or read (maybe I should read more) that the gear and flaps could be used based on the AOA.  I always use the IAS for max speeds.  It makes some sense but I can also see weakness in the idea.  From where did that AOA application come?

[DonMuncy]

Did I write it wrong. The airspeed indicator for flap speed, gear speed, never exceed, etc. and the AOA for pattern and landing. Or do we have a difference of opinion.

[David Mazer]

You wrote it correctly.  I read it backwards, and it made no sense, AOA for gear and flaps and ignore for pattern and landing.  Exactly the opposite of what you wrote.  Probably why I questioned it.  Sorry.

[Chimpanzee]

Looks like an elegant solution to me, and the pricetag is in sync with rest of my old 20C. I have to check out if I can place the LED panel next to the ASI, but the size makes me hopefull. I will be working on my birds annual in early March, and might add Rips unit to it. In the mountains of Arizona I would like all the help I could get, and as a person who also did some hours in gliders (and having read Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators) I do not have to be convinced about the benefits.

Cheers 

[rq3]

Incidentally, the information I have received is that when the FAA "approves" a system, it is a requirement that the manufacturer dictate that the calibration be done to 1.3 VSO. Apparently they don't want them set on the "stall". Probably because the calibration involves punching buttons and pushing buttons while stalling might not be the safest thing in the world.

A second calibration point is set at 1.9 VSO.

>SNIP<

Then, all the lights go out.

In flight (above 1.9 VSO, all the lights are also out. When slowing, at 1.9, all the lights come on, then go out one at a time, down through the greens, then the yellows and at 1.3, the blue light and all the reds are still illuminated.

 

The new FAA memorandum references ASTM Standard F3011, which says nothing about V speeds or other calibration points. The only thing that the FAA has to say on the matter is that the AoA indicator cannot take precedence over an installed, certified, stall warning device.

 

It may be a matter of design philosophy, but general ergonomics and human factors design criteria are that a display should NEVER be completely off, or blank. If it is, how do you know that it's working? The CYA-100 keeps its top, green LED on at any angle of attack below the angle at which it was calibrated. In other words, if you calibrate at Vy, the top LED will stay on from Vy to Vne (assuming the angle of attack doesn't increase beyond calibration, which it may do if you haul the stick at Vne)! Remember, angle of attack and airspeed are only loosely related. Only AoA can reliably predict when stall will occur, under all conditions.

 

Rip