Need advice on cracked case. IO360A1A

[cloud116]

Just found out today that I have a crack in the crankcase ahead of the #2 cylinder base stud.

IO360 A1A 200 hp on 75 F model. 1200 hrs since major.

To those with knowledge and experience, any words of wisdom? Trying to figure out if I should try to fix it or (gasp) look at a major or some other engine. Sounds like fixing it may amount to something close to a major.

[KSMooniac]

This has been covered here before, so try searching.  

 

As I see it, it depends on a few things... your ability and willingness to spend a little or a lot of money, and how long you plan to own it.  You could likely exchange it for a factory reman/overhaul, or you could take it apart, repair the case (common) and put it back together as-is, or something in between depending on the condition of the rest of the parts.  Worst case, you get it open and discover you'll need a new crank and/or cam, and that will become the most expensive option.  I wouldn't go for the factory exchange unless planning to keep it for a long time, but YMMV.  

[rbridges]

just out of curiosity, how did you find it?  just by chance?

[cloud116]

Oil on front of engine, behind prop.

[Greg]

I have same engine and mine has been welded.  keep in mind that in order to weld it you have to send the case halves in which means you are going to have the engine completely apart anyway.  May as well plan on an overhaul and hopefully there isn't anything else to repair but if there is you can be glad you found it before it caused an emergency.  

[N201MKTurbo]

I've had two cases welded by Divco. Never had a repeat problem. Cost about $4000 with me R&R ing the engine. That is with new bearings gaskets and rings.

[jetdriven]

Its a difficult proposition, you can do it at a shop but its going to be around 8-10K to get flying again.  I had the same thing (1200 hr engine trashed the cam and lifters), and the shop I work at wouldnt do the work, one guy offered to do it for 8 grand if we sent it in, and Zephyr wouldnt touch it.  When you find out the lifters are scored, the cam is bad and maybe the crank, it gets expensive in a hurry.  We went with the factory option to prevent future lifter failure but, like KSMooniac, I wouldnt do it on anything older than a M20J.

[BigTex]

We went with the factory option to prevent future lifter failure but, like KSMooniac, I wouldnt do it on anything older than a M20J.

Byron, what's the aircraft model have to do with your decision on how best to handle a cracked case?

[jetdriven]

Its a valuation thing. You can get 90K or so for a nice J with a factory engine when you sell it. Putting a factory engine on a M20C or such the value is not there, you will be spending 3/4 of the airplane's value on an engine.

[BigTex]

Really....Just so I understand what you're saying. Only your model and newer is worthy of installing a factory overhauled engine?

[jetdriven]

It really wasnt a value proposition on a 1977 M20J either. They dont bring as much as newer J's do.  But we did it anyway.  Perhaps one with a nice set of radios, or one newer than 1979 maybe would be a surer bet.  I couldn't part with the factory overhaul money on a M20C or E, and an F would be close depending on how it was equipped.  It was 35 grand all in, and now probably closer to 38K.  Thats a fortune to invest in an airplane you could only sell for 60K when you were done.

[201er]

Really....Just so I understand what you're saying. Only your model and newer is worthy of installing a factory overhauled engine?

What he's saying is the price of an overhaul is the same (or close) whether it's a C or a J. But putting $35k into a $30k airplane doesn't make it works $65. So the resale ROI of a factory overhauled engine is least cost effective in airplanes that aren't at least twice the value of the overhaul. It's all about the price point of the plane rather than model but since certain models don't sell for more than a certain amount, that's why he was judging by model.

[cloud116]

Appreciate the comments. I just replaced all the legacy avionics and was getting ready to do the interior. Based on the collective wisdom here, sounds like I should plan on welding it, but see what everything else looks like once they open it up. Anyone know what the going rate is for marriage counselors? Imagine I'll need to factor that cost in as well.

[Lood]

This is indeed a real bummer. Happened to me last year and you're really in a catch 22 situation, simply because you don't know what's going on inside. So, good luck and I do hope that your decision, whatever it might be in the end, is the correct decision.

[N601RX]

If your the type who likes to help with the work and your mechanic is willing to split the case and send the halves to Divco, it can be repaired relatively cheaply.

[Marauder]

What he's saying is the price of an overhaul is the same (or close) whether it's a C or a J. But putting $35k into a $30k airplane doesn't make it works $65. So the resale ROI of a factory overhauled engine is least cost effective in airplanes that aren't at least twice the value of the overhaul. It's all about the price point of the plane rather than model but since certain models don't sell for more than a certain amount, that's why he was judging by model.

 

In reality, very few of us will get back all of what we invested in our planes. My wife framed it up once by saying to me; "It would be cheaper if you had a cocaine habit".

 

To cloud116; I have a 1975 Exec as well. I also have invested heavily in my F and wouldn't think twice about making the investments again. I have owned my F for 21 years and know her inside and out. Trading up to a new unknown plane is just starting the process over again. Just because it is newer, doesn't mean it's better or less trouble free.

[BigTex]

Really....Just so I understand what you're saying. Only your model and newer is worthy of installing a factory overhauled engine? What he's saying is the price of an overhaul is the same (or close) whether it's a C or a J. But putting $35k into a $30k airplane doesn't make it works $65. So the resale ROI of a factory overhauled engine is least cost effective in airplanes that aren't at least twice the value of the overhaul. It's all about the price point of the plane rather than model but since certain models don't sell for more than a certain amount, that's why he was judging by model.

Not many of us do upgrades/repairs based based on economic sense alone. Anyone that's done any real upgrades will never recoup the costs. My $45,000 C model has has had that much spent on avionics upgrades alone. That doesn't count the $10k paint job a few years ago and soon $11k interior. So yes... The additional $65k invested in the plane will never be recovered. Will I do it again... Absolutely. And for the engine... I have a engine kitty that when I hit TBO hours, will have the funds to install a factory rebuilt engine. I consider it just an operating expense so I budget for it. It should not matter if you are flying a Champ or an Acclaim installing a quality engine should not even be debated.

[Marauder]

Not many of us do upgrades/repairs based based on economic sense alone. Anyone that's done any real upgrades will never recoup the costs. My $45,000 C model has has had that much spent on avionics upgrades alone. That doesn't count the $10k paint job a few years ago and soon $11k interior. So yes... The additional $65k invested in the plane will never be recovered. Will I do it again... Absolutely. And for the engine... I have a engine kitty that when I hit TBO hours, will have the funds to install a factory rebuilt engine. I consider it just an operating expense so I budget for it. It should not matter if you are flying a Champ or an Acclaim installing a quality engine should not even be debated.

 

Well said. My sentiments exactly.

[rbridges]

 Trading up to a new unknown plane is just starting the process over again. Just because it is newer, doesn't mean it's better or less trouble free.

 

Although i've only had my plane for 3 years, I feel the same way.  I've taken care of it's few major squawks ($$), and I don't like the idea of starting over with a different plane.

[John Pleisse]

That's a common crack point and repairable. However, many case repairs can cost north of $4-6k and not hold up. Case prices are similar (around $6k), so I'd go with a new case and see what an OH'er discovers once open. Problem is, there's no going back if they find something. I'd put a ceiling of $13k on repairs before considering a major (this would cover the case, typical top end work and maybe a jug or two). This pit stop would put you well past TBO safely with a known margin of safety and beat the cost of a major significantly. Sounds like you are prepared for the worst if it happens. With repairs, I'd stay away from the shady types in the back of aviation magazines. Go with Lycoming.

 

As for the cost to benefit analysis, only you can quantify peice of mind, safety and reliability. It's what you value. I think any pre-J Mooney is a great place for remans and new engines. The entry price of these aircraft allows it and they are great planes.

[Bob_Belville]

What else are you going to do with your money? Waste it on food, clothing, shelter? Leave it to your heirs? Get your priorities in order!

[Marauder]

What else are you going to do with your money? Waste it on food, clothing, shelter? Leave it to your heirs? Get your priorities in order!

 

My mistress would be upset if I didn't spend some on her

[Bob_Belville]

My mistress would be upset if I didn't spend some on her

Ain't we sayin' the same thing?

[Marauder]

Ain't we sayin' the same thing?

 

At least I am admitting it you -- you dirty dog!

[fantom]

My mistress would be upset if I didn't spend some on her

 

The right one or the left one