Is there an argument for a reworked M22 Mustang?

[DaV8or]

IIRC, the Mustang suffered from less than advertised performance and a host of engine troubles from an exotic engine.

 

Is there a case for a RR turbine powered M22 Mustang? How about just a TNIO-550? Was the plane just lousy and not worth the effort, or did it, like another Mustang I can think of, just lack the right power plant?

[Jeev]

It would be nice but how much would it cost? Maybe something between a Meridian and a TBM 850 (kind of a mooney). Unfortunately Mooney would need substantial outside investment to develop and test such an aircraft and I don't see that happening. But in a perfect world it would be awesome and if I had the $3-5mill to buy a turbine mooney it would be on ;-)

[ChrisH]

Competing with TBM/Pilatus would be hard. Look at what Beech is doing out of bankruptcy.

http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/pistons/beechcraft-reveals-plans-new-turboprop-piston-models

 

Beech entering the turboprop market, transitioning to jet-A (diesel). I think the pressurized piston is the sweet spot, Piper is the only game in town outside of experimental, but it'd have to run jet-A to have a world-wide market. Turboprops (TBM/Pilatus) burn 40-50 gph, think there's a market for a plane 1/2 the price that burns 1/2 the fuel and is still pressurized, FIKI and does >200kts (2/3rds the speed)?

[Parker_Woodruff]

It needs an airstair and likely club seating to make it marketable.

 

You need to get PA46 cabin room at a minimum to take the market share.

[bdjohn4]

As I remember hearing about a year ago from the well-known, well-respected aircraft designer Don Lee (who worked on the M22 back then and is now at HondaJet), the M22 designs were bought by the French I believe, and refined, and the TBM turboprop single became the ultimate result of that effort. So, the Mooney M22 lineage is in that aircraft. 

[KSMooniac]

Jim is correct as far as I understand how it went.

 

There isn't enough of a market to justify any major STC re-work of the original M22 in my opinion.  There were only a few dozen, and no telling how many are still complete, much less airworthy.  I've dreamed about it in the past, but even if someone gifted me a solid M22 airframe I'm not sure it would be worth the effort and expense to do an STC conversion to a TN or TSIO-550.  Lots of effort that wouldn't have enough sales potential to justify...

[Mcstealth]

Why do we have landing gear limitations with any of the K, M, S, or TN with the monster legs on the M22 available? Just saying.

[KSMooniac]

I doubt the M22 legs would fit into any M20!

[Alan Fox]

I dont think there ever was an uglier plane thane the M-22 .... You have to see it in person to get the full appreciation of how ugly it really is......Its even uglier than a C-337 Mixmaster......

[aviatoreb]

I dont think there ever was an uglier plane thane the M-22 .... You have to see it in person to get the full appreciation of how ugly it really is......Its even uglier than a C-337 Mixmaster......

 

Haha - I saw one once - it looked to me like a strange mix between a Bonanza front and a Mooney tail.

 

If it is already certified, why would it cost crazy money to re-engine?  For example a tornado alley type TN version of the IO550 would be ideal.  Then a modern windshield and cowl, and wing tips, and I bet it would look nice and perform great.  I would take one if I won it in the lottery.

[Seth]

I saw one as I was taxing in Tampa, FL in the spring of 2011.  I think it was based there.  The airport was KSPG - Albert Whitted Airport in St. Petersburg/Tampa, FL.

 

I forget the guys name, but there is one individual who keeps as many spares as possible for the M22 and I think annuals a lot of them.  I'm sure quick look on the internet will find his services.  Somewhere in the midwest I think.

 

-Seth

[KSMooniac]

Seth, you're probably thinking of the Pietsch outfit in ND.  Longtime Mooney and airshow folks with quite a collection of planes, including at least one M22.

[Alan Fox]

I would be willing to guess 1 piece of glass would be enough to total one of these... I bet a windshield half is over 10 large...... If it is even available, And no way in hell the feds would field approve any piece of the pressure vessel ........

[takair]

They are not the prettiest, but I would love to have one. I even looked at one for sale. The problem is parts. At last count, I think there were only 3 flying on a semi regular basis. The biggest problem is the engine. The engine was designed for the plane and had a custom low profile oil pan. At least one had a field approval for a "Duke" engine. However, others are grounded for one part or another. Field approvals are difficult to get now. I guess nose gear castings are all used up. Two other issues are a lack of icing cert and lack of STCd autopilots. That said, it would be great to have one as a project plane. With everything working, they are almost as fast as a Malibu when at flight levels. They seat 5, and are huge inside. It would be an interesting airplane in a revived modernized form.

[John Pleisse]

Go for it. I'll provide the "Experimental" stencil for you. Jim and Scott are right about the failed 301....but I must ask, wasn't this the same wing on the M22 (NACCA #)? Jeev...dead on. Not to tangentize, but could the current Mooney wing support more weight or is it maxed out? A Mooney 6 turbo or NA?

[AndyFromCB]

They already make one, it's called Malibu Mirage ;-) You can even get it in a turbine version, called JetProp or Meridian and I bet you adjusted for "aviation inflation" might be cheaper than a M22.

[Mcstealth]

I doubt the M22 legs would fit into any M20!

 

I doubt it also, but the intelligence is there, is my line of thinking.

[RJBrown]

There was an attempt about 15 years ago to re engine the whole fleet and turn it into a dependable plane. Kind of like what was attempted with the

Porsche airframes. It appears that the attempt was dropped . I assume because of cost and lack of cooperation across the entire fleet of originally 36 aircraft. The cost to develop a STC to put in a TSIO-550 was too great without a confirmed market.

[carusoam]

Amazing what you can do with a 550...

Best regards,

-a-

[Skypylott]

As a Mooney Mustang owner and owner of an FBO in Prescott Arizona I have read all the above comments with interest. The 1st comment that I would like to make it that after buying my airplane and going through the restoration process and learning the systems of this aircraft I have to say that this is one great aircraft, well designed and way ahead of it's time. The Mustang is an amazing piece of engineering and development for the mid 60's and is so far superior to the Piper Malibu I hate when it's compared! If and when the time comes to put another engine in my aircraft I will opt for the 385 horsepower TIO-541E1C4 Beech Duke engine and propeller combination. The retrofit would be fairly simple and the addition of 75 horsepower would be worth the hassle with the FAA for approval! Switching to an IO-550 would add nothing in the way of horsepower and would be a pretty big project! As for those who think this is an ugly aircraft they have never seen one close up with the right paint scheme and colors it is a very cool looking aircraft and looks like an M20 that is on steroids and has been pumping iron:-) Some parts are tough but where there is a will there is a way I managed to find the lower gear doors and mounting hardware my aircraft was missing with the help of other friendly Mustang owners. Also was able to get and electric inflatable door seal and all glass in able to be manufactured by FAA approved aircraft window manufacturer. All instrument repair, avionics etc. is straight forward like any other aircraft and a very good working autopilot manufactured by Brittain Industries in Tulsa was an option when aircraft was manufactured and is still supported today! Wheels, tires, brakes, strut seals, etc. etc. are all standard aircraft parts used on other aircraft! I LOVE MY MUSTANG!

[Steve Dawson]

Thanks Skypylott for telling us about your plane. Would it be possible for you to share some pictures with us of your Mustang?

[Hector]

PICTURES PLEASE!!!!

[Skypylott]

Yes I can try and post some pictures I was going to wait until I had the new paint and interior completed but if I can figure out how to post some I will, just keep in mind it will look much better very soon!:-)

I also wanted to make a correction to my above posting. The Lycoming TIO-541-E1C4 is 380 horsepower not 385 as I stated and the Continental TSIO-550 engines range from 315 to 360 horsepower so depending on the TSIO-550 model used there would be some benefit but it would be a lot more work. The Lycoming TIO-541-E1C4 is almost a bolt in switch over the original derated 310 horsepower Lycoming TIO-541-A1A Mooney used in the Mustang. I would love to add 70 horsepower to my Mustang, you know what they say "There is no substitute for horsepower" :-)

[aviatoreb]

Holy Moly - with 385hp - that bad boy would move out!  Do you really think you could get that done!  You would have the fastest Mooney ever.

 

Pictures please!!! :-)

[Skypylott]

Does anyone no how to post pictures on this forum?