M20J Installation of a Garmin 430 and a Garmin 530

[mjc]

Quote: allsmiles

The x30 is a 13 year old box originally designed as a VFR box.  With the exception of WAAS there have been no other improvements.  According to some reviews, it is cumbersome to use and under the right circumstances can be dangerous. We would be doing ourselves a huge diservice if we discount the fact that Honeywell has a tremendous level of experience with sophisticated military and business jet systems.  Honeywel, not Garmin, owns this arena.  Do we not benefit from this when they bring it to us at GA prices?? Is there no value in this???   I think there is tremendous value in this!! We are all adults here and free to make our own decisions.  The original question was to buy 430/530 or not.  My opinion, and only my opinion, is to wait until the 770 comes out. It's nor vaporware as some have called it, it's coming. Honeywell did not develop it just to turn around and kill it.  (Like Garmin killed the 480.  They bought it and killed it.  An awesome box it was and instead of improving upon it they killed it!!)  Perhaps then Garmin will wake up and come out with something to answer to it.  In the end we benefit.  We the GA user benefits from the technology and possibly lower prices.

This is only my opinion and its worth as much as you paid for it! 

[PTK]

Quote: mjc

I've now read several posts to the effect that the GNS-430 was designed as a VFR GPS. Is this opinion or fact? Can you post a link to the source of this information? Also, the majority of the reviews I've read, both in print and on aviation blogs, hail the GNS-430 as a tremendous advantage over the systems it replaced, including the KNS-80 and early King GPSes. I have read Mr. Greenspun's negative review, and even he admits in the end that the only alternatives are the GNS-480 or a full glass cockpit solution. What I read from most of the posst here is that folks agree that the GNS-430 is far from perfect, but it's the best value for the price.

The KSN-770, at a suggested retail price of $14k, may be a reasonable competitor to the GNS-530W after it is released and has some time in the field to work out initial bugs. I had originally heard it was supposed to ship in 2008. Even if they manage to start shipments in 2010, it probably won't be until 2011 or 2012 that it can be considered reliable enough to go up against the Garmin products. I'm not trying to say that no one should bother competing. I'd be thrilled to see more competition in GPS mapcomms. I'm just saying that if I decided that I absolutely needed approach-capable GPS right now, I wouldn't wait around for two years just in case something incrementally better than Garmin might come out and might be similarly priced.

[PTK]

Quote: allsmiles

I've now read several posts to the effect that the GNS-430 was designed as a VFR GPS. Is this opinion or fact? Can you post a link to the source of this information? Also, the majority of the reviews I've read, both in print and on aviation blogs, hail the GNS-430 as a tremendous advantage over the systems it replaced, including the KNS-80 and early King GPSes. I have read Mr. Greenspun's negative review, and even he admits in the end that the only alternatives are the GNS-480 or a full glass cockpit solution. What I read from most of the posst here is that folks agree that the GNS-430 is far from perfect, but it's the best value for the price.

The KSN-770, at a suggested retail price of $14k, may be a reasonable competitor to the GNS-530W after it is released and has some time in the field to work out initial bugs. I had originally heard it was supposed to ship in 2008. Even if they manage to start shipments in 2010, it probably won't be until 2011 or 2012 that it can be considered reliable enough to go up against the Garmin products. I'm not trying to say that no one should bother competing. I'd be thrilled to see more competition in GPS mapcomms. I'm just saying that if I decided that I absolutely needed approach-capable GPS right now, I wouldn't wait around for two years just in case something incrementally better than Garmin might come out and might be similarly priced.

[KSMooniac]

I have no idea why you keep calling the 400/500 series VFR boxes...they make single-pilot IFR an absolute breeze for this IFR pilot.  I learned on VOR/NDB and if I was lucky, a DME.  I used a KNS-80 for a little bit too, and there cannot be any sane argument that the 400/500 series are more difficult than old-school!  They are/were a wonderful advancement for GA flying, and I know a buddy in the USAF (B-1 pilot) that nearly cried when I showed him what my lowly Mooney can do. 

I predict King might finally get ready to deliver the KSN770 later this year, and they will be promptly trumped by Garmin with their next-gen navigators that will do more, at a lower price to boot.  OSH will probably reveal this...  Much like King finally released their PFD, at the same price as the G500 (PFD + MFD). 

[PTK]

Quote: KSMooniac

I have no idea why you keep calling the 400/500 series VFR boxes...they make single-pilot IFR an absolute breeze for this IFR pilot.  I learned on VOR/NDB and if I was lucky, a DME.  I used a KNS-80 for a little bit too, and there cannot be any sane argument that the 400/500 series are more difficult than old-school!  They are/were a wonderful advancement for GA flying, and I know a buddy in the USAF (B-1 pilot) that nearly cried when I showed him what my lowly Mooney can do. 

I predict King might finally get ready to deliver the KSN770 later this year, and they will be promptly trumped by Garmin with their next-gen navigators that will do more, at a lower price to boot.  OSH will probably reveal this...  Much like King finally released their PFD, at the same price as the G500 (PFD + MFD). 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: allsmiles

 Yes! Finally someone sees it the way I see it!  Yes this is what we need good old American competition.  They may be goosd boxes to you guys who like them but the original question was weather to buy x30.  My point was exactly this:  Since there is essentially a Garmin monopoly on this technology right now I would wait until some competiton came about in view of the KSN 770.  I am very skeptical paying top dollar for a DATED box to a company who has not had incentive to improve upon it and has not in 14 years!  When I say it's a VFR box I mean its cumbersome at IFR tasks.  I think you would agree some things could be improved upon on these boxes.  One would think in 14 years they would improve on something! Software or SOMETHING! 

[PTK]

You would not put any BK in your plane because you can't.  It's too late.  Garmin sucked you into their black hole of a monopoly and you are stuck with Garmin.  They stripped your freedom of choice! Much like apple is doing with their iPhone and iPad.  This is insanity!!  I will retain and protect my freedom of choice.  I will not put anything in my airplane that requires a credit card on file in order to operate. 

[danb35]

Are you just going to randomly revive every Garmin thread by trashing them?  The last post here was nearly 4 months ago--what was your point in posting this?

[PTK]

My point is exactly what I said.  There seems to be a frenzy on here regarding G500, iPad, iPhone, Foreflight laptops etc, etc.  Everyone has an opinion about something or other. Some have expressed a complaint about the ongoing update costs. of the 696.  My point is that Garmin and apple are similar in that they restrict our freedom of choice.  Once you buy Garmin you are stuck with Garmin for a couple years and then you hit a dead end. You MUST buy another piece of hardware in order to remain current. This of course on top of the ongoing update costs.  Apple is the same way.  I would not put an iPad in the cockpit.  It's too big and gets in the way.  Personally I would consider avionics that do not lock me in one path with the manufacturer.   

[DaV8or]

Quote: allsmiles

There seems to be a frenzy on here regarding G500, iPad, iPhone, Foreflight laptops etc, etc.

[Cruiser]

Quote: allsmiles

snip......

 Personally I would consider avionics that do not lock me in one path with the manufacturer.   

[PTK]

Such as Honeywell for panel mount (Apex edge line) or for handhelds True Flight comes to mind but there are others. Has Garmin changed anything with the x30 in the last 15 years ???

[Paul]

Has anyone heard any rumors as to when the KSN770 will be available?

[danb35]

Quote: allsmiles

Has Garmin changed anything with the x30 in the last 15 years ???

[rogerl]

Quote: Paul

Has anyone heard any rumors as to when the KSN770 will be available?

[PTK]

 Honeywell is keeping their mouth shut and the lid on very tight before Oshkosh.  Very prudent.  I would bet that a major announcement will be made at Oshkosh.  The smart thing for them to do would be to extend some type of trade in program for existing silver crown units for the KSN 770.  This is what Garmin cannot do!!  Personally I'm in no hurry.  I'm willing to wait for the dust to settle.  

[PTK]

Quote: danb35

[Parker_Woodruff]

And my guess is Garmin's going to have something that'll kick B-K product to the curb at OSH.

[JohnPleisse]

I own Mooney 201 M20J SN-240776, 12 units behind yours. I installed at G-340, 2 G-430W's and an Stec 55x in the center stack without concern. I kept a nice King DME and have a GTX-330 high in the right hand stack. The 340 audio panel is installed 3.5 inches below the top of the stack (below the innunciator lights) at the glareshield to accomodate the 45 degree post behind the panel.

2 recommendations. 1 make sure your avionics guy knows what he's doing when installing the Garmin trays. Mine were done right, but I have seen many who do lousy work with jammed and buckled trays, doubled rivots and patch work. 2, use the open space at the top of the center stack discribed above for your fuel flow, custom switching, suction guage etc.

Good luck...

[vicelong]

Hi,

I'm a owner of a M0J and I'ld like tom installa a used STEC55x but I'm not able to find the TSC (Stec ask a lot of money) and the supports .

Can someone help me?

Vic

[ree]

Anyone have success in obtaining 337 for panel installation Garmin 496 using airgizmo.  dseree@bellsouth.net    Mooney  N4114H SUA. 

[FAADAR]

Quote: ree

Anyone have success in obtaining 337 for panel installation Garmin 496 using airgizmo.  dseree@bellsouth.net    Mooney  N4114H SUA. 

[FAADAR]

Quote: FAADAR

Who says this is a Major Alteration?? As long as it is stand alone the Air Gizmo would not be considered a major alteration

[FAADAR]

Quote: FAADAR

Who says this is a Major Alteration?? As long as it is stand alone the Air Gizmo would not be considered a major alteration

[FAADAR]

http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx?mode=EBookContents

go to 8900.1 chapter 9 section one

There is good guidance for exactly what you are looking for most IA's /AP's do not know this exists