cloud coverage question for turbo mooney drivers

[bd32322]

I have been contemplating a turbo mooney for a little while. And I am wondering about TKS and how much use it gets in typical flights into the flight levels. What kind of cloud coverage do you guys typically see? Do you sometimes have a major portion of your flight in the clouds at FL180 for example - or is it mostly clear except for convective build-ups which you circumnavigate visually?

 

Being in MA I think I would want TKS for low level flight in clouds - but I dont have a schedule to keep and so I can choose to fly on days with a high enough ceiling (4000 feet or higher). Then I should be mostly descending through layers instead of lingering around in them.

 

Thanks in advance

[Parker_Woodruff]

Of course the WX each day is different, but I do sometimes have to limit climbs until I passa freezing cloud layer. Sometimes over a long cross country I'll have to descend earlier as well to avoid cloud cover that lies ahead. Best to consult with the Area Forecast for cloud bases and tops. 

 

Recently I was limited to 15,000' from TX to FL until I crossed into MS due to clouds up top.  The next trip going back into central Texas I had to descend to 12,000 as I found some unexpected light ice at 16,000. It was really unfortunate as the winds at 12,000 were miserable and it was a bumpy ride in IMC. So yes,  TKS buys quite a bit of en route flexibility. 

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I think TKS adds the most value in coastal areas and the Midwest. When I lived in Northern CA I used TKS quite often when ascending and descending through wet, icy cloud layers in the winter. In that area I would pick up the most ice between 8,000' and 14,000'. I rarely picked up ice in the flight levels because I was either on top or the clouds held too little moisture up high. I would expect you'd have similar (albeit colder) conditions in the Northeast.

Now that I live in Colorado I rarely use TKS because we don't often have wet overcast with high tops out here. It's either convective junk in the summer that you have to fly around, or high cirrus in the winter that you need a U2 to reach. We occasionally get upslope conditions where TKS would be useful, but so far I've not flown in those conditions. Quite frankly, my personal minimums are much higher out here (read: I only cross the Rockies VFR) because of the dangerous terrain and frequent turbulence.

BTW, flying in Colorado absolutely sucks. In the summer we're plagued by gusty winds, convection and turbulence, even on what appears to be a clear, beautiful day. In the winter we're often subject to violent turbulence from the mountain waves and rotors that form downwind of the Rockies when the jetstream dips down here. I guess I need to vent because I took my bird up for some local sightseeing this morning in clear blue skies and got punished so badly that I returned to the airport within 30 minutes. 3 out of my last 5 flights have gone the same way. I miss flying on the West Coast!

[jackn]

I went through the same decision making process when I bought mine. I decided not to get TKS initially. That turned out to be a mistake. I have no intention to fly along in icing conditions, but I found myself cancelling or postponing flights that could have been made ice free, because I wasn't sure. I addded TKS last year, and I'm happy I did. It's comforting to know that if I encounter ice, I'll have time to exit. I cross the Appalachians south of the Great Lakes on my way to/ back from Colorado in the winter and that route always seems to have an ice threat. BTW, I love flying in the Rockies in the winter. I don't fly on high wind days, and the scenery is spectacular! I always have to get used to the fact that if you lose your engine, your more than likely to make an off airport landing. Bring warm clothing and survival gear.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Quote: jackn

I went through the same decision making process when I bought mine. I decided not to get TKS initially. That turned out to be a mistake. I have no intention to fly along in icing conditions, but I found myself cancelling or postponing flights that could have been made ice free, because I wasn't sure. I addded TKS last year, and I'm happy I did. It's comforting to know that if I encounter ice, I'll have time to exit. I cross the Appalachians south of the Great Lakes on my way to/ back from Colorado in the winter and that route always seems to have an ice threat. BTW, I love flying in the Rockies in the winter. I don't fly on high wind days, and the scenery is spectacular! I always have to get used to the fact that if you lose your engine, your more than likely to make an off airport landing. Bring warm clothing and survival gear.

[Awful_Charlie]

I'm based in Europe, so the weather is not the same as yours   Normally I'll plan to fly VMC on top, but with TKS I don't care about blasting through a layer, and I also don't have to bother about changing altitude to stay out of it, and anyway, FIKI was the reason for me to change aircraft!  I'm surrounded by hills, and need 8000' to get out IFR, but would still need a 3000' cloudbase to escape VFR to the west with any sense of safety, and with the freezing layer being on the deck (or below) for much of the winter, no FIKI would mean the aircraft would lose a lot of the utility value.

Crazily, when in the UK with its nominally easy approach to IFR, particularly around London, FIKI it is even more use, (often prevented from climbing away low level, so being kept in the freezing clag) although the lack of affordable airports with approaches makes things somewhat more difficult.  I wouldn't blink at spending 15-30 minutes in light ice, as long as the ride was comfortable, but would probably look for a level change if it was forecast to be much longer than that.  One big time usage was on my way back to Basel at FL170 odd (at night to add to the fun), in the clear, starting the descent when approach gave me an 'approach time undetermined' - they were clearing the snow from the runway.  I asked to hold at FL150, as I was still on top there, and didn't fancy running round in ovals getting through fluid for an unknown time.  Still had to use the max setting on the way down to keep everything clean, so 13'000 of descent at 600fpm will have been 20 mins or so, with the high setting that's about a quarter of a tank!

Now I've got used to the system, I guess I do 10 gallons of TKS a year for 100-120 hours, it is a messy and nasty fluid, and the need to pump some througfh the system every so often probably uses a significant proportion f that.  It leaves a slightly sticky residue on the whole aircraft that attracts dust and dirt, so if I am turning it on for the sake of the system rather than for ice, I try to do it in rain, or when going away from home (it also seeps out of the panels for a day or three after using it, and it makes a mess in the hangar).  Without any moisture to wash it away, it makes the screen appear as though it is grubby too, and it's like continually peering into the haze

I've not stressed it to the max, such as departing into freezing fog of the like, and to be honest, I'd probably rather not be flying when it is like that anyway!  Most important to get the system on for a few minutes before entering icing conditions though, when ice has accumulated iand the system isn't primed, t is very poor at getting rid of it, which is the reason for turning it on for a few minutes every two or three weeks.

hth

Ben

[gjkirsch]

I would not own another plane that I planned to use for cross country flying without icing protection.  Been there, done that, and took too much of a chance with my family to ever do it again.  I look at the TKS system as either something to get me through a layer of clouds and ice either on climb out or descendent into clear air or to an altitude too cold for ice.  The TKS system fully charged lasts about 2 and 1/2 hours and does a great job.  That said, I won't spend a minute longer than I have to in ice. 

[BorealOne]

Quote: gjkirsch

I would not own another plane that I planned to use for cross country flying without icing protection.  Been there, done that, and took too much of a chance with my family to ever do it again.  I look at the TKS system as either something to get me through a layer of clouds and ice either on climb out or descendent into clear air or to an altitude too cold for ice.  The TKS system fully charged lasts about 2 and 1/2 hours and does a great job.  That said, I won't spend a minute longer than I have to in ice.