Garmin Pilot disappointment

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

I would suspect it won't remain free for long!

I think it's going to stay pat.  Actually, I think it's more likely to go away entirely than require payment.  That's because of its origins - tied to the fltplan.com user base. It really hasn't seen a heck of a lot of updates. My sense is that, if the paying fltplan.com user base moves to GP or FF, there's not much reason to continue offering it. 

[toto]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

I think it's going to stay pat.  Actually, I think it's more likely to go away entirely than require payment.  That's because of its origins - tied to the fltplan.com user base. It really hasn't seen a heck of a lot of updates. My sense is that, if the paying fltplan.com user base moves to GP or FF, there's not much reason to continue offering it. 

Definitely. FltPlan was Garmin’s entree into the corporate flight department, but I’m sure they had zero interest in the EFB.

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, MikeOH said:

I would suspect it won't remain free for long!

Garmin has owned it since August 2018

They haven't added anything to the app, but they have kept it supported and it is still able to transfer flight plan data to Garmin panel avionics. At least they haven't killed it off.

[toto]

24 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Garmin has owned it since August 2018

They haven't added anything to the app, but they have kept it supported and it is still able to transfer flight plan data to Garmin panel avionics. At least they haven't killed it off.

It was a pleasant surprise when they added panel integration. After the acquisition, I was paranoid that they would drop FltPlanGO like a bad habit, but suddenly they had a new release with GTX support - and it became my favorite #2 EFB

It’s obviously not their flagship product, but I’m guessing they keep it around for existing paying fltplan.com customers. 

[donkaye, MCFI]

Can any of the Logbook Apps do the below and much more?

Total Flight Hours by Aircraft.pdf Total Flight Instruction By Aircraft Model .pdf Total Flight Instructing MCFI 2024.pdf

[Jackk]

55 minutes ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

Can any of the Logbook Apps do the below and much more?

Total Flight Hours by Aircraft.pdf 57.1 kB · 4 downloads Total Flight Instruction By Aircraft Model .pdf 42.82 kB · 1 download Total Flight Instructing MCFI 2024.pdf 79.32 kB · 1 download

 Think they all can make reports 

Edited December 16 by Jackk

[midlifeflyer]

7 hours ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

Can any of the Logbook Apps do the below and much more?

Short answer. Yes.  I kinda liked that total instruction by model one, so I took a few seconds to pull it up. And yes, I can also pull it down as a csv and manipulate and format it any way I want to. I can also click on a bar and pull up all the entries that are included. 
“And lots more.”

I began using MFB in 2006. I had been using a DIY database since the mid-1990s where I did all that too. It was the robust feature, data, and reporting capabilities that attracted me, even in its infancy (the joke is that my user number is lower than the developer’s). 

[GeeBee]

IMHO, nothing beats SafeLog. Besides the dual cloud and local storage option few apps can produce an IACRA at the touch of a button. I remember applying for an A330 type rating and while the rest of the class was struggling with IACRA I pulled up SafeLog on my iPad and said, "Done". Equally so I can tell you how every approach was executed down what buttons I pushed if you so desire. It is that detailed.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

IMHO, nothing beats SafeLog. Besides the dual cloud and local storage option few apps can produce an IACRA at the touch of a button. I remember applying for an A330 type rating and while the rest of the class was struggling with IACRA I pulled up SafeLog on my iPad and said, "Done". Equally so I can tell you how every approach was executed down what buttons I pushed if you so desire. It is that detailed.

You point out some significant features. And I know SafeLog's pricing is very reasonable for it's feature set.

But is that true about IACRA? I would expect any logbook app to do something as basic as an IACRA report. It's not 1976, you know   Pretty sure Foreflight's logbook does it. MyFlightBook certainly does. 

Some form of personal cloud or local storage is another reason I chose MFB. And I think you are correct that few give that option. With MFB it's manual in the free version; automatic for an annual donation of $25.00.

But being able to pull up your buttonology is a very interesting addition. I assume it's pulling the data from your system?

[Max Clark]

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

IMHO, nothing beats SafeLog. Besides the dual cloud and local storage option few apps can produce an IACRA at the touch of a button. I remember applying for an A330 type rating and while the rest of the class was struggling with IACRA I pulled up SafeLog on my iPad and said, "Done". Equally so I can tell you how every approach was executed down what buttons I pushed if you so desire. It is that detailed.

Foreflight includes a formatted 8710 report as a standard option. It's been great when I've been filling in the IACRA.

[Max Clark]

On 12/14/2025 at 9:01 AM, McMooney said:

my problem, garmin doesn't supply nav data for the gns480, only source is jepp.   

FYI Avidyne is Jeppeson only for anyone reading this in the future.

[Max Clark]

On 12/14/2025 at 12:24 PM, Jackk said:

One of the benefits of FF is you just hit record when you start engines, record after and it fills almost all of it out for you 

You can also have automatic Track Logs turned on. This has saved me once or twice.

To record Track Logs automatically, the Enable Auto Start/Stop feature under More > Settings > Track Logs must be enabled.

[Max Clark]

New Garmin Avionics (G3x + GTN 750xi) in the plane this year, and my Foreflight subscription renews in January so I've been going back and forth on this topic for a while now.

I started with paper logbooks and then started flying with Foreflight a little over a decade ago. I converted my paper logbooks to Foreflight (photo all of your pages and pay someone else to do it, it's worth it!) which included copying in all of the various endorsements. Everything 2020+ has been natively in Foreflight (instructor signatures on flights, endorsements, etc...) including 100% of my Instrument training through check ride. This even included Redbird AATD time which would simulate track logs into Foreflight. I've planned multiple 1000+ nm cross country flights with Foreflight, including in air conditions, weather, FBO, and deviation planning and execution. I do all of my pre-flight briefings, weight and balance, and flight plan filing with ATC via Foreflight.

I say all this to say I'm fairly familiar with Foreflight.

When Garmin released Smartcharts I was probably 2 minutes into the demo when my brain exploded. It's hard to explain how amazing their UX decisions and execution are unless you've spent a lot of time starring and SIDs, STARs, Approach Plates, etc... Garmin really crushed this release, instant want and I made a note to a) play with it, and b) figure out a good point I could cut over from FF to GP. To date I've done neither.

What's kept me away? Two things really:

1. I've been making it a point to fully utilize the G3x and GTN in my plane and not rely on an iPad in my lap (or yoke). The BS limitations with the G3x not being IFR certified aside, the more I've learned and remember where things are in these systems the better they are to fly with. Changing shortcuts on the GTN to take me immediately to procedures and then back to the map was the biggest and easiest change to my workflow that pulled me out of the iPad.

2. FF is updating and following GP with Dynamic Procedures. The implementation isn't nearly as elegant, and the overall UX is still too cluttered compared to Smartcharts but they're getting there. I suspect part of the issue is just figuring out how to transition away from the legacy UX, icons, flow, etc... in the app without upsetting too many people.

I still look at GP and am jealous, but I've put off any plans about switching. I'm mostly happy that we have two really good options in the market forcing each to improve, bring us new features, and make better experiences for pilots.

[midlifeflyer]

24 minutes ago, Max Clark said:

The BS limitations with the G3x not being IFR certified aside,

? The only G3X IFR limitations I know of are:

1. stand-by instruments are required for attitude, altitude and airspeed, which is pretty common, and
2. its internal GPS is not certified for IFR use and requires an external navigator (you have a GTN), which pretty much gives it a leg up on many other PFDs which don't even have that backup capability. 

Is the M20R G3X AFMS materially different from the standard one?

[PeteMc]

On 12/15/2025 at 9:43 AM, donkaye, MCFI said:

After some "birthing" issues, the WiFi updates have worked perfectly for me for many months.

That's good to know.  But I think I'd probably still use the SD Card.  And hopefully they are going to get around to letting any panel device be the "Master" not just the GTN.  I do have to pull my FS510 to install the DB in the GTN, but then I also just swap and leave the current update in my GNC. Back a few software updates they said that all the other devices would do a DB Sync from which ever device has the latest update, but that never happened.  If they get that finally working I'm set with the one SD Card in the GNC.

[PeteMc]

3 hours ago, Max Clark said:

You can also have automatic Track Logs turned on. This has saved me once or twice.

Yes, but there are a large number of stories how the Auto Start/Stop messed people up.  And then it matters if you care how accurate your Logbook entry is.  Remember the Start is +60ish Kts and the Stop is when you slow below 60 Kts.  So all the Taxi and Hold time before Takeoff is an ESTIMATE by FF.  Sure, it's a fun toy that may save you... Or just royally mess with your time. 

Start engine, Start Track Log  
Stop engine, Stop Track Log
Or... Just use Hobbs Time!

[Hank]

3 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Start engine, Start Track Log  
Stop engine, Stop Track Log
Or... Just use Hobbs Time!

I use the yoke clock. Wind and Set time, overlap non-moving red hands, start engine; after landing and taxi, shut down and write elapsed time between the red and white hand pairs. 

[gabez]

I have been using pilot for 5-6 years. the main feature that garmin has is you can put a chart on the map and a chart on the side. you can key approaches or have an approach on the map and and the airport diagram on the other. super useful. else is about the same +/- 

[toto]

4 hours ago, Max Clark said:

New Garmin Avionics (G3x + GTN 750xi) in the plane this year, and my Foreflight subscription renews in January so I've been going back and forth on this topic for a while now.

I started with paper logbooks and then started flying with Foreflight a little over a decade ago. I converted my paper logbooks to Foreflight (photo all of your pages and pay someone else to do it, it's worth it!) which included copying in all of the various endorsements. Everything 2020+ has been natively in Foreflight (instructor signatures on flights, endorsements, etc...) including 100% of my Instrument training through check ride. This even included Redbird AATD time which would simulate track logs into Foreflight. I've planned multiple 1000+ nm cross country flights with Foreflight, including in air conditions, weather, FBO, and deviation planning and execution. I do all of my pre-flight briefings, weight and balance, and flight plan filing with ATC via Foreflight.

I say all this to say I'm fairly familiar with Foreflight.

When Garmin released Smartcharts I was probably 2 minutes into the demo when my brain exploded. It's hard to explain how amazing their UX decisions and execution are unless you've spent a lot of time starring and SIDs, STARs, Approach Plates, etc... Garmin really crushed this release, instant want and I made a note to a) play with it, and b) figure out a good point I could cut over from FF to GP. To date I've done neither.

What's kept me away? Two things really:

1. I've been making it a point to fully utilize the G3x and GTN in my plane and not rely on an iPad in my lap (or yoke). The BS limitations with the G3x not being IFR certified aside, the more I've learned and remember where things are in these systems the better they are to fly with. Changing shortcuts on the GTN to take me immediately to procedures and then back to the map was the biggest and easiest change to my workflow that pulled me out of the iPad.

2. FF is updating and following GP with Dynamic Procedures. The implementation isn't nearly as elegant, and the overall UX is still too cluttered compared to Smartcharts but they're getting there. I suspect part of the issue is just figuring out how to transition away from the legacy UX, icons, flow, etc... in the app without upsetting too many people.

I still look at GP and am jealous, but I've put off any plans about switching. I'm mostly happy that we have two really good options in the market forcing each to improve, bring us new features, and make better experiences for pilots.

SmartCharts is miles ahead of Dynamic Procedures. As a non-FF user, I spent a little time with DP trying to see what it could do, and I couldn’t shake the fact that it was just augmenting the paper charts rather than fundamentally rethinking the data and workflows. I’m definitely sold on SmartCharts as a 21st century solution to a 20th century problem.

The killer app for me with a similar panel to yours is the streaming EIS to Garmin Pilot. It’s fantastic to have the EIS data automatically included as part of my flight logs, and I don’t have to bother pulling SD cards etc. to get the engine data. Not to mention - it’s streamed to GP in real time, so you have a secondary EIS display if you need it. 

[hammdo]

I use both FF and G Pilot. SmartCharts is too good a feature not to use - also split screen. DP’s just are not as good. FF has too many other items I like so the combo is perfect. Next year I’ll not renew Jepp charts in FF…

-Don

[Slick Nick]

I’m a huge fan of Jepp FD, but it’s much more geared towards airline style flying than GA. For GA, ForeFlight is awesome. 

The time I spent using Garmin SmartCharts, was almost as if I was using “Fisher Price: My First Approach Plate”. The lack of information is annoying, it’s far too dumbed down, and only leads to more fumbling around in their clunky interface if ATC suddenly changes your approach or transition. Having everything displayed on a chart in the traditional manner means everything you need is always right in front of you. 

YMMV but I’ll stick to ForeFlight. 

[Jackk]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

I use the yoke clock. Wind and Set time, overlap non-moving red hands, start engine; after landing and taxi, shut down and write elapsed time between the red and white hand pairs. 

Thing with the record on FF it knows it’s a tower, it knows when it’s night time, shows exact mileages, etc

[Hank]

47 minutes ago, Jackk said:

Thing with the record on FF it knows it’s a tower, it knows when it’s night time, shows exact mileages, etc

I don't often visit towered fields. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

I don't often visit towered fields. 

I still think of my home drome as a small suburban airport. It didn’t have or need a tower when it got one in like ‘93. Heck, we used to drag race on the runway. Now it’s like the 11th busiest airport in the country.

[PeteMc]

8 hours ago, gabez said:

the main feature that garmin has is you can put a chart on the map and a chart on the side. you can key approaches or have an approach on the map and and the airport diagram on the other.

So with the iPad in Horizontal View, you can do a split screen and keep the map on one side and the chart on the other?  I've been tell FF they should do that for years!