Flying to Canada, eh?

[N9453V]

I'm planning my first "fun" long distance trip in the Mooney for tentatively around the end of this month to go to visit family in Ontario and Maine (I've done a lot of VERY long cross countries but either to ferry my plane or someone else's and the level of fun has been debatable... especially on the some of the ferry flights).

I thought I'd most my planned route in case anyone has any tips/gotchas or alternate stops to consider. Also, even though I have a Transport Canada Private Pilot License (in addition to my FAA Commercial), it's been about 4 years since I've flown VFR in Canada and I've never flown IFR in Canada, so I have a few stupid questions...

Day 1: KBTR: Baton Rouge, LA to CYLS: Barrie, ON (fuel stops in KMLS: Muscle Shoals, AL and KDAY: Dayton, OH)

Day 3: CYLS: Barrie, ON to CYTZ: Toronto, ON (planning to use Porter FBO at CYTZ unless there are any others I should consider)

Day 5: CYTZ: Toronto, ON to KRKD: Rockland, ME (customs stop in KBVT: Burlington, VT)

Day 7: KRKD: Rockland, ME to KCRW: Charleston, WV (fuel stop in KSWF: Newburgh, NY)

Day 8: KCRW: Charleston, WV to KBTR: Baton Rouge, LA (fuel stop in KGAD: Gadsden, AL)

 

Questions:

1) Charts: Since I'm only flying in Southern Ontario, I'm assuming all I need from Canada is the CFS? I'm assuming I can use Foreflight for charts since the US Sectional and Low En Route cover my route of flight and the Fltplan app for CAP approach plates.

2) Survival Equipment: Looks like I may need some basic survival equipment and life vests?

CAR 602.61 (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part6-602-2436.htm) states:

(1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft over land unless there is carried on board survival equipment, sufficient for the survival on the ground of each person on board, given the geographical area, the season of the year and anticipated seasonal climatic variations, that provides the means for

(a) starting a fire;

( providing shelter;

© providing or purifying water; and

(d) visually signalling distress.

CAR 602.62 (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part6-602-2436.htm) states:

(1) No person shall conduct a take-off or a landing on water in an aircraft or operate an aircraft over water beyond a point where the aircraft could reach shore in the event of an engine failure, unless a life preserver, individual flotation device or personal flotation device is carried for each person on board.

3) IFR: What are the big differences I can expect? Also, how should I pickup and cancel a clearance at CYLS (uncontrolled airport)?

 

-Andrew

[Hank]

I've heard that Canada requires onboard survival equipment, and they may check for it at the border. Others can provide details.

Yell when you come to CRW, it's a whopping 42 nm from here. Fuel may be less expensive at KHTW; if you need an approach, try KHTS to get down then cross the river (special) VFR. Coming into CRW for 23 is interesting, you will see where a few hilltops were removed for glideslope clearance; if you come in on 5, notice the runway extension hanging out beyond the ridgeline with lots of struts.

DAY will be a nice stop, you can park close and tour the AF Museum [it's free] if you have time.

[aviatoreb]

Quote: N9453V

I'm planning my first "fun" long distance trip in the Mooney for tentatively around the end of this month to go to visit family in Ontario and Maine (I've done a lot of VERY long cross countries but either to ferry my plane or someone else's and the level of fun has been debatable... especially on the some of the ferry flights).

I thought I'd most my planned route in case anyone has any tips/gotchas or alternate stops to consider. Also, even though I have a Transport Canada Private Pilot License (in addition to my FAA Commercial), it's been about 4 years since I've flown VFR in Canada and I've never flown IFR in Canada, so I have a few stupid questions...

Day 1: KBTR: Baton Rouge, LA to CYLS: Barrie, ON (fuel stops in KMLS: Muscle Shoals, AL and KDAY: Dayton, OH)

Day 3: CYLS: Barrie, ON to CYTZ: Toronto, ON (planning to use Porter FBO at CYTZ unless there are any others I should consider)

Day 5: CYTZ: Toronto, ON to KRKD: Rockland, ME (customs stop in KBVT: Burlington, VT)

Day 7: KRKD: Rockland, ME to KCRW: Charleston, WV (fuel stop in KSWF: Newburgh, NY)

Day 8: KCRW: Charleston, WV to KBTR: Baton Rouge, LA (fuel stop in KGAD: Gadsden, AL)

 

Questions:

1) Charts: Since I'm only flying in Southern Ontario, I'm assuming all I need from Canada is the CFS? I'm assuming I can use Foreflight for charts since the US Sectional and Low En Route cover my route of flight and the Fltplan app for CAP approach plates.

2) Survival Equipment: Looks like I may need some basic survival equipment and life vests?

CAR 602.61 (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part6-602-2436.htm) states:

(1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft over land unless there is carried on board survival equipment, sufficient for the survival on the ground of each person on board, given the geographical area, the season of the year and anticipated seasonal climatic variations, that provides the means for

(a) starting a fire;

( providing shelter;

© providing or purifying water; and

(d) visually signalling distress.

CAR 602.62 (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part6-602-2436.htm) states:

 

(1) No person shall conduct a take-off or a landing on water in an aircraft or operate an aircraft over water beyond a point where the aircraft could reach shore in the event of an engine failure, unless a life preserver, individual flotation device or personal flotation device is carried for each person on board.

3) IFR: What are the big differences I can expect? Also, how should I pickup and cancel a clearance at CYLS (uncontrolled airport)?

 

-Andrew

[N9453V]

Quote: Hank

I've heard that Canada requires onboard survival equipment, and they may check for it at the border. Others can provide details.

Yell when you come to CRW, it's a whopping 42 nm from here. Fuel may be less expensive at KHTW; if you need an approach, try KHTS to get down then cross the river (special) VFR. Coming into CRW for 23 is interesting, you will see where a few hilltops were removed for glideslope clearance; if you come in on 5, notice the runway extension hanging out beyond the ridgeline with lots of struts.

DAY will be a nice stop, you can park close and tour the AF Museum [it's free] if you have time.

[N9453V]

Quote: aviatoreb

Ooooh - I love Rockland...KRKD - I go at least once a year.  I was in KBHB Bar Harbor on Monday of this week.  KBTV Burlington is my favorite under 30-min $100 Hamburger run...

I thought the requirement to carry survival equipment as per 602.61 only activates if you will be flying more than 25 mi from an airport which you may not be further than that at any time while flying across southern Ontario.

Foreflight will show enroute and VFR charts for southern canada, but for plates and such you need the Canada plan on foreflight for an extra charge.

[jlunseth]

Since you have a Canadian license you probably know this, but CANPASS will charge you anytime you land in Canada.  Probably need to register with them in advance.  The one time I did it the charge was not much, but there is a charge.  I would get the Foreflight service because if you are IFR it is not just plates you will need, don't forget that you will also need arrivals, departures, and the like (I think they have ODP's or their equivalent there, not sure, I do know they have SID's). 

No one ever asked for radio station or operators license in Can., but they did ask for proof of insurance, which we normally don't carry in the US because not required.  I would carry your binder or certificate.

Lastly, you do know you have to file eAPIS and in addition make a phone call to customs in the US in advance of your landing.  Can. customs may require a phone call also.  Bring your eAPIS passwords and some kind of computing device so you can file when you are in Canada for return to the US just in case you need to.  Also, small thing, but you need a passport and not just a passport card.  The passport card is only good for ground transportation.

[1964-M20E]

Andrew

Good luck and do not let time pressure get you in a bad situation your comment about a quick turn to get there at a certain time for customs.  When you get back we will have to meet up in Pineville or Reserve for breakfast.

Try to do the AF Museum in Dayton it is very nice the last time I was there in 1988.

[Becca]

Quote: N9453V

I'm planning my first "fun" long distance trip in the Mooney for tentatively around the end of this month to go to visit family in Ontario and Maine (I've done a lot of VERY long cross countries but either to ferry my plane or someone else's and the level of fun has been debatable... especially on the some of the ferry flights).

I thought I'd most my planned route in case anyone has any tips/gotchas or alternate stops to consider. Also, even though I have a Transport Canada Private Pilot License (in addition to my FAA Commercial), it's been about 4 years since I've flown VFR in Canada and I've never flown IFR in Canada, so I have a few stupid questions...

Day 1: KBTR: Baton Rouge, LA to CYLS: Barrie, ON (fuel stops in KMLS: Muscle Shoals, AL and KDAY: Dayton, OH)

Day 3: CYLS: Barrie, ON to CYTZ: Toronto, ON (planning to use Porter FBO at CYTZ unless there are any others I should consider)

Day 5: CYTZ: Toronto, ON to KRKD: Rockland, ME (customs stop in KBVT: Burlington, VT)

Day 7: KRKD: Rockland, ME to KCRW: Charleston, WV (fuel stop in KSWF: Newburgh, NY)

Day 8: KCRW: Charleston, WV to KBTR: Baton Rouge, LA (fuel stop in KGAD: Gadsden, AL)

 

Questions:

1) Charts: Since I'm only flying in Southern Ontario, I'm assuming all I need from Canada is the CFS? I'm assuming I can use Foreflight for charts since the US Sectional and Low En Route cover my route of flight and the Fltplan app for CAP approach plates.

2) Survival Equipment: Looks like I may need some basic survival equipment and life vests?

CAR 602.61 (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part6-602-2436.htm) states:

(1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft over land unless there is carried on board survival equipment, sufficient for the survival on the ground of each person on board, given the geographical area, the season of the year and anticipated seasonal climatic variations, that provides the means for

(a) starting a fire;

( providing shelter;

© providing or purifying water; and

(d) visually signalling distress.

CAR 602.62 (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part6-602-2436.htm) states:

 

(1) No person shall conduct a take-off or a landing on water in an aircraft or operate an aircraft over water beyond a point where the aircraft could reach shore in the event of an engine failure, unless a life preserver, individual flotation device or personal flotation device is carried for each person on board.

3) IFR: What are the big differences I can expect? Also, how should I pickup and cancel a clearance at CYLS (uncontrolled airport)?

 

-Andrew

[N9453V]

Quote: jlunseth

Since you have a Canadian license you probably know this, but CANPASS will charge you anytime you land in Canada.  Probably need to register with them in advance.  The one time I did it the charge was not much, but there is a charge.  I would get the Foreflight service because if you are IFR it is not just plates you will need, don't forget that you will also need arrivals, departures, and the like (I think they have ODP's or their equivalent there, not sure, I do know they have SID's). 

No one ever asked for radio station or operators license in Can., but they did ask for proof of insurance, which we normally don't carry in the US because not required.  I would carry your binder or certificate.

Lastly, you do know you have to file eAPIS and in addition make a phone call to customs in the US in advance of your landing.  Can. customs may require a phone call also.  Bring your eAPIS passwords and some kind of computing device so you can file when you are in Canada for return to the US just in case you need to.  Also, small thing, but you need a passport and not just a passport card.  The passport card is only good for ground transportation.

[N9453V]

Quote: 1964-M20E

Andrew

Good luck and do not let time pressure get you in a bad situation your comment about a quick turn to get there at a certain time for customs.  When you get back we will have to meet up in Pineville or Reserve for breakfast.

Try to do the AF Museum in Dayton it is very nice the last time I was there in 1988.

[N9453V]

Quote: Becca

Sounds fun.  I posted my experience flying to Canada in one of the other threads here : http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=4&threadid=4884

If its not too late, I recommend you (and your pax) apply to Canpass.  We plan on making it a near annual event to fly up to my father's lake house in Ontario.  That said, one of these  years, I'd like to take a summer tour of the maritime provences - I grew up on Anne of Green Gables, and I'd love to see PEI. 

[yvesg]

N9453, please re-read the rule again and look at what I put in bold:

602.61 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft over land unless there is carried on board survival equipment, sufficient for the survival on the ground of each person on board, given the geographical area, the season of the year and anticipated seasonal climatic variations, that provides the means for

(a) starting a fire;

( providing shelter;

© providing or purifying water; and

(d) visually signalling distress.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of

(a) a balloon, a glider, a hang glider, a gyroplane or an ultra-light aeroplane;

( an aircraft that is operated within 25 nautical miles of the aerodrome of departure and that has the capability of radiocommunication with a surface-based radio station for the duration of the flight;

© a multi-engined aircraft that is operated south of 66o 30' north latitude

(i) in IFR flight within controlled airspace, or

(ii) along designated air routes;

(d) an aircraft that is operated by an air operator, where the aircraft is equipped with equipment specified in the air operator's company operations manual, but not with the equipment required by subsection (1); or

(e) an aircraft that is operated in a geographical area where and at a time of year when the survival of the persons on board is not jeopardized.

_________________________

So unless you plan to fly at a higher latitude, you don't need survival gear. I don't know of any local flyers carying such items.

Yves from Canada

[N9453V]

Quote: yvesg

N9453, please re-read the rule again and look at what I put in bold:

602.61 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft over land unless there is carried on board survival equipment, sufficient for the survival on the ground of each person on board, given the geographical area, the season of the year and anticipated seasonal climatic variations, that provides the means for

(a) starting a fire;

( providing shelter;

© providing or purifying water; and

(d) visually signalling distress.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of

(a) a balloon, a glider, a hang glider, a gyroplane or an ultra-light aeroplane;

( an aircraft that is operated within 25 nautical miles of the aerodrome of departure and that has the capability of radiocommunication with a surface-based radio station for the duration of the flight;

© a multi-engined aircraft that is operated south of 66o 30' north latitude

(i) in IFR flight within controlled airspace, or

(ii) along designated air routes;

(d) an aircraft that is operated by an air operator, where the aircraft is equipped with equipment specified in the air operator's company operations manual, but not with the equipment required by subsection (1); or

(e) an aircraft that is operated in a geographical area where and at a time of year when the survival of the persons on board is not jeopardized.

_________________________

So unless you plan to fly at a higher latitude, you don't need survival gear. I don't know of any local flyers carying such items.

Yves from Canada

[Hank]

Quote: N9453V

Hank,

Thanks for the info. I skipped HTW since on long cross countries, I generally prefer airports with an ILS. Also, I looked at HTS, but we travel with our dog and the only decent hotel in Hawthorne that allows dogs wanted a $100 pet fee for a 1 night stay. The Holiday Inn in Charleston was much more reasonable and has a free shuttle from the airport.

Didn't know about the AF museum in DAY, but may need to save it for another trip since this will be a quick turn. We need to be on the ground by 1630 EDT in CYLS to clear customs and that necessitates an 0500 CDT departure from BTR.

-Andrew

[jlunseth]

I do have proof of insurance ($1M third part liability), radio station license and my restricted radiotelephone operator permit so I think we're all set with documents. Also, I'm Canadian, so I don't think they have passport cards yet in Canada anyways. I read through the eAPIS requirements, I love how you need permission to leave the country...

-Andrew

[N9453V]

Quote: Hank

 Andrew--

HTW has no ILS, so we use the one from HTS, 4 nm away when necessary. But our runway is short [3001' with trees we're trying to get cleared out]. HTS is Huntington, WV, with a lengthened and repaved last month runway; HTW is Chesapeake, OH, the original, pre-jet airport for Huntington. I don't know where Hawthorne is. I've also never checked for a pet-friendly hotel in Huntington. My dog is a travel-friendly size, and good pet-friendly hotels are hard to find.

Either way, you've got a great trip planned out. Have lots of fun! Just be careful with those long days . . . 0500-1530 CDT is a long time to fly, even with two fuel stops.

When you come back, the AF Museum is at KDAY, and they only charge in the gift shop and the restaurant. Don't know about parking on the ramp, my last visit was by car. I need to go again, it's less than an hour in my C.

[mooneyman]

Andrew,

I am based at KDAY. I recommend either Aviation Sales (tell ground ASI) or Wright Bros Aero for fuel. Both are good. I am hangared At ASI.

We did DAY direct CYTZ last summer and used Porter. They were good and clearing Customs was a not event. Very short ferry ride from Toronto Island to downtown Toronto. 

Definitely check out the National Museum of the AirForce in Dayton when you have more time. It is great!

We are planning trip this summer with stops at Niagara Falls (KIAG), Montreal, and Maine (to be determined). 

Have a blast and let me know what you recommend in Maine.

Patrick

[N9453V]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions on this thread...

I wanted to follow up with a trip report for others interested in doing a similar trip. Due to time constraints, we opted just to visit Southern Ontario on this trip and saved Maine for a future trip.

Day 1: KBTR (Baton Rouge, LA) - KMSL (Muscle Shoals, AL) - KDAY (Dayton, OH) - CYXU (London, ON)

I field eAPIS the night before and got the permission to depart email. The route I filed was KDAY GEMNI CYXU which made it easy to calculate the point we would cross the border since GEMNI is right on the Ohio/Ontario border over Lake Erie (also minimized the time over water). We ended up leaving Baton Rouge slightly behind schedule, so I just called CBP at Dayton when we stopped in Alabama and updated our ETA.

Muscle Shoals worked fine as a fuel stop, but self serve was fairly far away from the FBO and I ended up wishing we'd just done full serve. Also, they close fairly early (I think 6PM).

We used Aviation Sales in Dayton and they were great. We'd asked for a quick turn and they had the fuel truck pulled up before we'd even shut down. They also went to the trouble to find a bowl to give water to our dog. Fuel was very reasonable for a class C airport.

I called Canada Customs from Dayton just before departure to give our two hour notice and they only asked for tail number, passenger names and ETA (we are all Canadian Citizens). Every leg was IFR, so I was obviously on a squawk code and talking to Cleveland Center when we crossed the border. After we landed at London, tower told us to taxi to the FBO and line service asked called customs for us and they said they weren't going to come out and I should just call CANPASS (we had applied, but hadn't yet received our CANPASS documents). I called CANPASS and was given an arrival number.

We used Executive Aviation (http://www.executiveaviation.ca/) in London and were very happy with them. They arranged a rental car with Discount at a very reasonable $40/day and we paid no overnight parking fees despite only taking on 10 gallons. If we'd stayed longer than 1 night, I believe a tie-down was only $10/night. Customs is available till midnight, so it makes it a very handy point of entry. For a hotel, we used the StationPark All Suites Hotel and were very happy with it.

Day 2: CYXU (London, ON) - CYLS (Barrie, ON)

This short trip was uneventful, but reminded me of the few minor differences of flying in Canada. First, our IFR clearance didn't include departure frequency (tower gives it to you with your takeoff clearance). Second, they wanted us to wait 3 minutes for wake turbuelnce when departing behind a DHC-8-100! They let us waive it, but another Mooney behind us, waited for the full 3 minutes to be up. Third, I almost forgot that tower doesn't tell you to contact departure, but expects you to once airborne. And finally, I had to remember that since CYLS is an uncontrolled aerodrome, it's expected that you enter the circuit upwind (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/publications/tp14371-rac-4-0-5385.htm#rac-4-5-2).

We used the only FBO (http://www.lakesimcoeairport.com/pilot-information/fbo) and it was quite nice. They arranged a rental car with Enterprise and fuel was the most reasonably priced we bought in Canada (around $7/gallon). They were fairly concerned with security and letting me drive the rental to the airplane, but that may have just been because the Canadian Forces Snowbirds were parked next to me. The first night's parking was waived and we paid $10 for the second night. We used the Holiday Inn in Barrie and it was decent (the best part being the Tim Hortons next door).

Day 4: CYLS (Barrie, ON) - CYTZ (Toronto City Airport, ON)

I was unable to reach Toronto Terminal on the ground and didn't want the hassle of having to call London Radio, so I departed VFR and picked up my IFR clearance to YTZ in the air. The trip was uneventful and got a nice view of the CN tower and Toronto skyline while landing on runway 26 (since it is the longest, it is generally used despite the ever present crosswind). I had fairly easy 70-80 degree crosswind of about 20 knots when landing.

We used Porter FBO (https://www.flyporter.com/about/Porter-FBO?culture=en-CA) which was nice, but expensive and a bit of a walk from the ferry (they will drive you if you ask). Fuel was about $8.15/gallon and parking was $35/night. This is on top of the landing fees of $14.70 (http://www.torontoport.com/Airport/For-Pilots/Landing-Fees.aspx). We also had a bit of an issue where they got a fuel order from another U.S. registered aircraft mixed up with mine and they ended up overfueling us. Line service was very apologetic and got a hose and buckets and offloaded the fuel, but customer service didn't really seem to care about situation.

Porter has a few rates with local hotels including the Raddison on the waterfront and the Delta Chelsea. We used the Delta and it was pretty good.

While in Toronto, I took some family on a short VFR local flight to CYKZ (Buttonville, ON). ATC was very accomodating with my lack of local knowledge and Million Air at Buttonville didn't charge any ramp fees for a short stop.

Day 7: CYTZ (Toronto, ON) - KDAY (Dayton, OH) - KMQY (Smyrna, TN)

I had filed with eAPIS and called CBP in Dayton the previous day. Since we were coming in on the 4th of July, their office was closed so they told us an officer on call would respond.

We had a few delays getting out of Toronto in the morning, first they gave me a route completely different than I'd filed and then we got stuck in a long line of Porter Dash 8's waiting to takeoff and once we were off, we had to immediately deviate around weather over Lake Erie and request a re-route, so we were looking to be arriving in Dayton about 15 minutes behind our scheduled ETA. Once we were close enough to Dayton, I was able to call Aviation Sales on the unicom and they responded that they'd been tracking us on FlightAware and had already called CBP to let them know about the delay (wow!).

The CBP officer who responded was very nice. He came outside with line service as we taxied in, walked around with the geiger counter and suggested we all go inside (it was about 42 celsius). He quickly checked our passports and our dog's paperwork and welcomed us back to the US. He also said he was tracking our flight online as well and understood about the delay. All in all, it was extremely painless and uneventful.

Our plan was to go back to Muscle Shoals and then Baton Rouge that same day, but a widespread line of storms over Alabama and Mississippi made it look like we weren't going to make to Baton Rouge at least until later in the day. Due to the limited hours and lack of services in Muscle Shoals, we opted to divert to Smyrna (near Nashville). We used CFM FBO and it honestly is probably one of the best FBO's I've ever been to. They are open 24 hours with great facilities, reasonable fuel and they were happy to drive us to restauraunts and a hotel once we opted to spend the night.

Day 8: KMQY (Smyrna, TN) to KBTR (Baton Rouge, LA)

Uneventful. The highlight was talking with the Memphis Center controller about dogs since when I fly with my dog I always put in the remaks section "1 DOG ON BOARD."

Overall, this trip was a lot of fun and we are going to try to do it annually. eAPIS and CBP was really easy and basically no big deal. I used Foreflight along with the Fltplan iPad app for Canadian Charts, so all I needed to buy was a copy of the Canada Flight Supplement. I also upgraded my XM weather to the "Aviator" package and was glad I did as it includes Canadian Radar which helped avoid some nasty storms over Lake Erie.

If anyone has any questions, please let me know!

-Andrew