Defueling - equipment and procedures

[M20F-1968]

What equipment and procedures you any of you use for de-fueling as may be needed for weight reasons?  Now that I have Monroy tanks, this may become an issue if I want to add one more passenger and eliminate fuel.

John

[201er]

I have been flying my 201 with monroy tanks for over a year and have managed pretty well without ever defueling. Luckily I typically don't fly with more than one passenger and flights with more people are never on short notice. When I know I will be flying with 3-4 people, I just plan my prior fuel up and flying schedule to arrive at the target fuel weight. If I found out with just a few days notice, I would still opt to just go fly it off than to pour it down the drain.

[M20F-1968]

Does that mean that you fly the fuel off with the 3rd or 4th passenger over gross weight, or you do so before taking on the 3rd or 4th passenger?  I ask that only to get a sense of the 201's performance.

John

[Seth]

John

I also have Monroy tanks and it's rare that I fly with more than two people on board.  The Missile useful load is 1068 lbs, so even with 98 gallons I've got the useful load for many missions.  I often will top of the inboard tanks but not always top off the outer Monroy tanks for shorter flights and to open up possibilities.  I fly to short fields often and will only depart with full tanks when I'm the only one on board, otherwise for performance, I try to not have the aircraft weighed down when hot or heavy.  Also, I don't always keep the tanks topped off as tanking around 7 hours of flight time is sometimes in my mind not efficient even though I know it is important to keep the tanks "wet" to asssit the sealant.  My former F model had bladders which I tried to keep topped off, but they were the smaller 50 gallon capacity tanks, so keeping them topped off made sense for most flights anyway.  The Monroy tanks are wet wing, so I'm trying to do as much as possible to ensure I don't develop issues with the sealant.

It is nice though to top off with less expensive gas when I want to and then use it for a while.

I have never had to defuel, and if I did, I'd probably just go flying (always will take that excuse).  I know there are the pumps availalbe and tanks with 14 gallon capacity I've seen in Sporty's.  Maybe a hand pump like that could be used?

And Mike - I hope to make it to anothe fly in soon!  It's been far too long.

Take care,

-Seth

 

 

[richardheitzman]

Defueling is very risky and should only be done (IMHO) by trained professionals with the proper safety equipment, and here is the reason why. When you defuel a aircraft you:

1. release fumes which are highly combustable

2. creat static electricity from the movement of the fuel into the container

3. potentially can cause a fuel spill with can get you in trouble with EPA which most owner/ operators dont have the capability of containing / cleaning up fuel spills

I have seen the results of improperly draining fuel. One was a burned up aircraft when the plastic bucket the guy was using burst into flames and burned the aircraft to the ground. The second one was third degree burns to a mechanics arms and face after the bucket he was using to drain fuel burst into flames and he reached in to pull the bucket away from the aircraft and it in turn spilled on him and caught him on fire.

Enough said on that subject, right? If you are doing it now, stop doing it, if you are thinking about doing it, DONT

[201er]

Quote: M20F-1968

Does that mean that you fly the fuel off with the 3rd or 4th passenger over gross weight, or you do so before taking on the 3rd or 4th passenger?  I ask that only to get a sense of the 201's performance.

John

[Piloto]

The easiest way to defuel is by siphoning. Get a 3/8" x 5' long clear hose from Home Depot. Also a couple of 5 gallons containers. Insert the hose on the main tanks as close to the bottom of the inboard rib. Siphon on the hose until you see fuel at the bottom of the U bend. Put the hose outlet end into the container and let it drain. Store the containers in a safe place for later use of the fuel. On my hose I have a 6 inches tube at the inlet to keep the hose from curling inside the tank.

José

 

[richardheitzman]

Quote: Piloto

The easiest way to defuel is by siphoning. Get a 3/8" x 5' long clear hose from Home Depot. Also a couple of 5 gallons containers. Insert the hose on the main tanks as close to the bottom of the inboard rib. Siphon on the hose until you see fuel at the bottom of the U bend. Put the hose outlet end into the container and let it drain. Store the containers in a safe place for later use of the fuel. On my hose I have a 6 inches tube at the inlet to keep the hose from curling inside the tank.

José

 

[richardheitzman]

What I was trying to say in my previous email was to tell Jose and everyone else to PLEASE do not do this.

[M20F-1968]

Richard Heitzman:  I hear you.  I have never defueled an aircraft and posted my question to get a sense of what people were doing.  If the Monroy tanks are fuel, you really have a 2 person airplane.  I plan on keeping 64 gallons in the airplane as a normal course of action.  The only concern with that is the feeling that keeping the tanks full is theoretically better for the PRC sealant.  But, there are also those that believe the fuel fumes in a partially full tankl are enough to sustain the PRC.

I certainly appreciate the concerns for static electricity and the hazards that creates around fuel.  Certainly need good grounding and proper procedures.  I was not sure if there are owners who routinely do defuel for weight reasons.

Thanks,

John Breda

[Piloto]

Quote: richardheitzman

What I was trying to say in my previous email was to tell Jose and everyone else to PLEASE do not do this.

[Piloto]

Quote: M20F-1968

Richard Heitzman:  I hear you.  I have never defueled an aircraft and posted my question to get a sense of what people were doing.  If the Monroy tanks are fuel, you really have a 2 person airplane.  I plan on keeping 64 gallons in the airplane as a normal course of action.  The only concern with that is the feeling that keeping the tanks full is theoretically better for the PRC sealant.  But, there are also those that believe the fuel fumes in a partially full tankl are enough to sustain the PRC.

I certainly appreciate the concerns for static electricity and the hazards that creates around fuel.  Certainly need good grounding and proper procedures.  I was not sure if there are owners who routinely do defuel for weight reasons.

Thanks,

John Breda

[eaglebkh]

I have siphoned before as well.  Follow basic safety procedures like grounding (i.e. ground the plane and keep the receiving container on the ground) and you should be okay.  Transfering fuel via siphoning is not much different than fueling from a pump and nozzle.  If you are concerned with fumes, you could always cover the openings with rags.

I would buy new, clean containers, though.

[DaV8or]

Quote: richardheitzman

Enough said on that subject, right? If you are doing it now, stop doing it, if you are thinking about doing it, DONT

[231Pilot]

The problem with siphoning is  not a health issue, but the static electricity that can be generated by siphoning into an ungrounded container.  This has been the cause of more than one hanger fire, and was the cause for the loss of at least one MooneySpace poster's aircraft when tanks were drained by his mechanic.  If I remember correctly (you can look for his posts with the search function) the aircraft and the shop it was being worked on in were totally consumed by fire.

Not a good idea to do this.  If you must, those cans and the plane better be well grounded.  Otherwise it could cost you your plane, and possibly the planes in neighboring hangers.

 

This is the thread: Bad Ending to a Good.......

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=1&threadid=947

[Piloto]

Quote: 201Pilot

The problem with siphoning is  not a health issue, but the static electricity that can be generated by siphoning into an ungrounded container.  This has been the cause of more than one hanger fire, and was the cause for the loss of at least one MooneySpace poster's aircraft when tanks were drained by his mechanic.  If I remember correctly (you can look for his posts with the search function) the aircraft and the shop it was being worked on in were totally consumed by fire.

Not a good idea to do this.  If you must, those cans and the plane better be well grounded.  Otherwise it could cost you your plane, and possibly the planes in neighboring hangers.

 

This is the thread: Bad Ending to a Good.......

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=1&threadid=947

[Lood]

Most fuel specific containers, funnels, etc is made of non-static material and if grounded as an extra precaution, together with some good old common sense, there shouldn't be any problems.