Ice on the bottom of the wings. Go or no go?

[slowflyin]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

After surviving an SLD encounter in my Mooney I can tell you that ice buildup significantly affects the Mooney and I have no desire to ever dispatch  intentionally into icing in any aircraft. 
I firmly believe that people underestimate the danger.  This is not to say they believe it “wont happen to me”, just in a genuine lack of understanding regarding how quickly it can happen. Once you experience it, your planning is forever changed.  

 

THIS

[exM20K]

I would be more worried about fouling the gear rigging than anything else. If you bend just one rod or bellcrank, everything downstream is disturbed. This seemingly minor misalignment on the gear door took 30 hours to fix and featured a bent bellcrank and rod. Thankfully, Mooney had the bellcrank, and the shop was able to straighten the rod.

 

So, I’m a No Go on this one.

-dan

[cliffy]

Just an example of what can happen-   Boeing 737-200  KMDW

I was above the cloud deck outside the marker, crossed the marker and entered the clouds. 

From this point on ice gathered at a high rate. Of course the anti-ice was on. 

The windshield wiper nuts were building up a thickness of ice (the way to check icing on an early Boeing)

In 1 minute the HEATED windshield was getting thick ice stuck to it

Power was moved up to maintain airspeed

Power went to 150% of normal to stay at speed (6,000 #/hr to 9,000 #/hr)

The decision was made that we were not going around on this approach due to too much ice on the airframe. 

Once on the ground the flaps were not retracted as the spaces between the flap slots were packed  full with clear ice.

3 inches of ice was attached to the landing gear

This all happened from inside the outer marker to the ground  3-4 minutes in the clouds.

NONE of it was forecast or reported by earlier traffic.

So those of you who fly a lot of IMC in cold weather take heed- it could happen to you. 

 

[Schllc]

8 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

When you started picking up this ice, what did you do? What were the weather conditions? What phase of flight?

 

it was foggy on the ground, in the mid 40’s but it wasn’t 0/0. 

Leaving Austin about 7-8 years ago, my plane was not icing equipped and there was a layer forecast for I think 17-19 k.   The outer edge of the area was Austin. 
I had filed for 19 and the sigmet had popped up the morning after so when I picked up my clearance I told them I wanted to stay below the icing. 
when I took off and got Houston they told me that the sigmet was not valid and that they needed me at 19 or lots of rerouting. 
well when I hit 17k I noticed drops on the windshield and glanced at the wing. I saw ice there but when I looked back at the windshield I couldn’t see out of it. I looked at the wing again and I had several inches. My rate of climb went from 1400fpm to a descent and my airspeed went from 145 to about 90. 
it took less time for all that to happen than it did to type this. 
At this point my back pockets were touching. 
I did a 180 and lost about 7k of  altitude and atc started fussing at me. 
I don’t recall what I said exactly, but it was not all professional. 
it was solid imc and while I wasn’t spacialy disoriented.  I didn’t really know where I was with regard to airspace or direction. 
I was pretty much focused on the airspeed and the oat and trying to get somewhere warm enough to feel safe. At some point  it either broke off the wings or melted enough for me to stabilize. 
all of this took about 10-15 min.  It took about 45 min for the windshield to completely clear. 
 I landed in Mississippi about 2.5 hours later and when I walked up to the fuel pump I noticed my hands were still shaking and I had sweated through my pants and shirt. It was 45 degrees on the ground…
 

[N201MKTurbo]

18 minutes ago, Schllc said:

it was foggy on the ground, in the mid 40’s but it wasn’t 0/0. 

Leaving Austin about 7-8 years ago, my plane was not icing equipped and there was a layer forecast for I think 17-19 k.   The outer edge of the area was Austin. 
I had filed for 19 and the sigmet had popped up the morning after so when I picked up my clearance I told them I wanted to stay below the icing. 
when I took off and got Houston they told me that the sigmet was not valid and that they needed me at 19 or lots of rerouting. 
well when I hit 17k I noticed drops on the windshield and glanced at the wing. I saw ice there but when I looked back at the windshield I couldn’t see out of it. I looked at the wing again and I had several inches. My rate of climb went from 1400fpm to a descent and my airspeed went from 145 to about 90. 
it took less time for all that to happen than it did to type this. 
At this point my back pockets were touching. 
I did a 180 and lost about 7k of  altitude and atc started fussing at me. 
I don’t recall what I said exactly, but it was not all professional. 
it was solid imc and while I wasn’t spacialy disoriented.  I didn’t really know where I was with regard to airspace or direction. 
I was pretty much focused on the airspeed and the oat and trying to get somewhere warm enough to feel safe. At some point  it either broke off the wings or melted enough for me to stabilize. 
all of this took about 10-15 min.  It took about 45 min for the windshield to completely clear. 
 I landed in Mississippi about 2.5 hours later and when I walked up to the fuel pump I noticed my hands were still shaking and I had sweated through my pants and shirt. It was 45 degrees on the ground…
 

Thanks for the story. It sounds like you did the right thing. You knew there was no ice below and behind you and you immediately turned there. That’s what you have to do.

Did you notice the OATs? If ATC tried to send me to altitudes with ice, I would tell them I was unable.

[Schllc]

8 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Thanks for the story. It sounds like you did the right thing. You knew there was no ice below and behind you and you immediately turned there. That’s what you have to do.

Did you notice the OATs? If ATC tried to send me to altitudes with ice, I would tell them I was unable.

Well, when I heard the drops it was still slightly above freezing. I didn’t pay much attention to it after the accumulation. I was pretty overwhelmed. 
I was a relatively new IR, so I was pretty thorough with my briefing. 
my mistake was listening to the controller who told me it was invalid. He made a mistake and there was an action as a result of the report I made. The sigmet was not invalid, I found out the hard way. 
it was a very edifying experience for me and it made it clear to me that controllers make mistakes too and if something doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t. 
I sold the plane immediately after that and bought one with fiki. 
I still do not plan trips into icing unless there is a guaranteed escape route below me, and even then I have canceled more than a few times. 
People, of which I am included, tend to discount some of these stories and assume that it “isn’t as bad as people say”, or so rarely happens that way I’m safe…. 
but I can promise you, if you have a real icing experience, it will absolutely change your perspective. I cannot be adamant enough about how dangerous that stuff is, and the worst part is you don’t ever really know how bad it will be. 
In my case, another 10-20 seconds without action and it would not have been survivable. 
For those of you who have not had an icing interlude, This is NOT an exaggeration. 
I’d  like to say it was skill, know how or reflexes, but in reality it was probably mostly just luck that it tuned out the way it did. 
I’ve heard guys talking about how they fly in the stuff and linger because of how well the tks fluid works…

To each their own,  but you won’t find me there.