Heavy & Difficult Manual Gear Operation on M-20C

[mslisaj]

I have a friend with a 1965 M-20C with manual landing gear.  He took me for a flight and I was in the left seat as the PIC and I could not operate the landing gear.  He had to help me raise the gear  and the same to extend it for landing.  I mentioned that I thought there was an issue with this as it was extremely heavy.  If I let go of the yoke and used two hands I could manage to operate it with great difficulty but I can't believe Mooney built this plane this way.  If I was to buy this airplane brand new back in the day and took a test flight this would absolutely be a deal breaker.  I told my friend I won't fly his airplane again.  Anyone have any thoughts about this?  It's a nice  plane but the gear is so hard to operate I would fly it with the gear down instead of doing battle with that heavy "Johnson bar".

[hammdo]

Get the gear up before 80 mph or do the mooney dip. Down @ or below 120 mph.  Mine works pretty well. Also a bent jbar can make it hard work or something caught in the bar area. Down block can also be egg shaped…

[PT20J]

I used to fly a 1968 M20C many years ago and never had a problem raising the gear from the left seat once I got the motion down so it would have momentum to get over center.

A few years ago, I few in the right seat with a friend in his M20C and I had a lot of difficulty getting the gear up. Could be a difference in the airplanes. Maybe I've gotten weaker. Maybe my left arm is weaker than my right. Not sure. But I had to get the gear up immediately after takeoff at as low an airspeed as possible to raise it with my left arm. I'm pretty sure his airplane was rigged correctly because he was the most meticulous A&P/IA I've known. I'd be interested to know if others have found it more difficult to raise the gear from the right seat. 

[Joshua Blackh4t]

I get mine up below 90kts, and down at about 100 kts but i never feel like i need to worry about speed.

Occasionally i have had seatbelt tangles and had to let go for a second and it just sits about halfway. It easier than the gearshift on some old machinery

[RangerM20]

If it is hard to stow, it could be that the nose tire is striking the inner wheel well.  There is an adjustment for this.  If it is doing this during the entire travel, it could be bent retraction tubes, or seized bushings.

[Rwsavory]

2 hours ago, mslisaj said:

I have a friend with a 1965 M-20C with manual landing gear.  He took me for a flight and I was in the left seat as the PIC and I could not operate the landing gear.  He had to help me raise the gear  and the same to extend it for landing.  I mentioned that I thought there was an issue with this as it was extremely heavy.  If I let go of the yoke and used two hands I could manage to operate it with great difficulty but I can't believe Mooney built this plane this way.  If I was to buy this airplane brand new back in the day and took a test flight this would absolutely be a deal breaker.  I told my friend I won't fly his airplane again.  Anyone have any thoughts about this?  It's a nice  plane but the gear is so hard to operate I would fly it with the gear down instead of doing battle with that heavy "Johnson bar".

Your friend needs to get his Mooney into a competent shop.  This video show normal function. It works the same way in the air, assuming you're not trying to raise the gear over 90 mph, in which case it's a little more difficult.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I have fixed a few of these. It is almost certainly the nose gear actuator rods. 
 

At some point, somebody tried to fix the preloads. They fixed it alright. Those rods need to be precisely adjusted. It isn’t hard if you know what you are doing, but if you don’t, you can screw them up royally in short order.

When properly adjusted you can work the J bar with your fingertips.

[C.J.]

It can take a few attempts to get the proper technique. Don't pause during process. Retraction becomes difficult as speed increases. I raise the gear at 80 mph with no problem. Extending the gear is easier requiring no effort as gravity is your friend, your part being ensuring it's placed properly into the down-lock block; green light is secondary. I find it operates even smoother after annual with the gear newly greased. There are eleven zerks for the nose and seven per main (eight on later years).  

[takair]

I think technique is the number one reason for a person new to the Johnson bar.  As others said, too much speed is a big factor.  With the Johnson bar, get the gear up early.  Most folks new to the gear struggle to hit the thumb release, pull down on the handle and then swing it.  Usually by the time they figure out step 1 and 2, the speed is too high.  Oh, and then there is an awkward motion of the hand and wrist about half way through.   If the speed does get too high, one can momentarily help the gear with a slight push on the yoke, but don’t forget to release the push.  It usually takes about a dozen cycles to feel comfortable.  Putting the gear down is easier, it tends to want to come down hard, so one must use care not to let it slam home……but you want enough momentum to get into the down lock.   Once you get used to it, it is an awesome system….assuming it is rigged right.

For Skip @PT20J, I find it more difficult from the right seat because I can’t use my thumb to release the lock.  Once used to it, it’s not impossible, but like the being new to the left seat, it takes about a dozen cycles to learn to do it from the right seat……not to mention I’m right handed and weaker left arm.

[BDPetersen]

It was a bit over 60 years ago I swung my first Mooney gear and often referred to the process as “flick-flick” to emphasize to my buddies how easy it was. Now my arthritically challenged right hand makes the unlatching process a bit daunting. When I first got my current “C” it was significantly out of rig and the down lock was badly worn. Fixing those made the actual swinging a non issue, airspeed not withstanding. Just wish I had a workaround for unlatching.

[mslisaj]

First I would like to sincerely than all you guys for taking your time to respond to the question I posted here.  All of it has been extremely informative.  I have talked to the owner of the Mooney that I am asking about yesterday and I got under the airplane yesterday looking at the nose wheel and the housing it goes into when folded and there are no signs of any mechanical interference.  But he does realize there is an issue with this landing gear and is addressing it.  He is an A&P and has the books out and seeking advice from a friend that is a Mooney Mechanic and has all the "special tools".  They are initially looking at the, what I would call balance springs on the main gear.  As this airplane has been sitting in a hangar for 18 years and is not just getting back in service.  But he has the jacks and tools so I'll report back what they find.  But thank you again all of you for your help and suggestions.  I so appreciate it.

[Slick Nick]

Hit the gym. 

[hammdo]

Develop a ‘Mooney’ Johnson bar arm ;o)

[47U]

8 hours ago, mslisaj said:

They are initially looking at the, what I would call balance springs on the main gear. 

Did someone say “springs?”  

So close, and yet, so far away.

[takair]

1 hour ago, 47U said:

Did someone say “springs?”  

So close, and yet, so far away.

Bend spring back and forth while adding washers in the space between coils. Very easy and effectively lengthens the spring so you can attach without damaging you or the plane. Swing gear and washers fall out to be retrieved with a magnet. Be sure to count the washers first. 

[cliffy]

The airplane should have solid nose gear rods in the wheel well. Sometimes they are replaced with the spring ones from the electric gear airplanes (not really legal) but in any event a full lubrication and rerig goes a long way (especially because it has sat unused) to a smooth gear operation

Make sure he has the tools to do the "over center torque check"  Nothing else will substitute period! And he knows how to do it. 

The mains are adjusted first and then the nose gear rods are fitted per the book  or else you are wasting your time.

If you adjust one rod they all need to be rechecked because one affects all the others!!

Thick carpet on the nose wheel well between the handle and the wheel well can make it very difficult to secure the handle in the DOWN gear position. Thick carpet on the floor can make it almost impossible to latch the gear in the UP position

The dust boot/mouse boot at the base of the handle can bunch up and prevent easy actuation of the gear. 

If its on jacks you try it and see if it feels any different than it did airborne. If it does maybe you were just going too fast  :-)

 

[rwabdu]

If I have trouble or gained a little extra speed in my climb out, as I'm raising the gear, I push the nose down for a moment, this almost throws the gear up into the airplane. Opposite for gear down, I pull up, it slows the plane to gear extension speed, and I drop the gear, the extra little pull pulls the gear down for me as soon as I unlock the bar....