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M20F down near KFUL - Minor/Moderate Injuries

Skates97
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Skates97 Grand Master

Skates97

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Looks like it was flown frequently. News is reporting no one injured on the ground, the two occupants suffered minor to moderate injuries. From the picture I am amazed that anyone in the front seats survived. A closer look at the picture and it appears the tree trunk went just behind the pilot seat and both front seats are turned about 45° to the left, probably what saved them. From the flight history looks like based out of Brackett (KPOC). Wonder if @MikeOH knows him?

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/plane-crash-fullerton/3568885/

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N9245V/history/20241125/2141Z/KFUL/KFUL

Found the liveATC. They were on flight following, you can see from the track they departed and made the standard turn to 120 before they called tower back that they were experiencing some engine roughness. The flight following request and departure are earlier in the recording, the first call with problems is at about 17 minutes. At about 19 minutes declares mayday and landing near the train tracks.

https://archive.liveatc.net/kful/KFUL2-Gnd-Twr-Nov-25-2024-2130Z.mp3

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Skates97 Grand Master

Skates97

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Looking at the bigger picture I wonder if he was going the opposite direction of how he ended up. Trying to put it down on the road maybe the right wing caught the pole and spun him 180° into the tree that entered the left side of the cabin. That's the only thing I can think of that would put that dent in the right wing and have the tree trunk enter the side of the cabin.

chopper.png?resize=850,478&quality=85&st

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EricJ Grand Master

EricJ

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40 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

Looking at the bigger picture I wonder if he was going the opposite direction of how he ended up. Trying to put it down on the road maybe the right wing caught the pole and spun him 180° into the tree that entered the left side of the cabin. That's the only thing I can think of that would put that dent in the right wing and have the tree trunk enter the side of the cabin.

chopper.png?resize=850,478&quality=85&st

That'd be my assessment as well.    

Ragsf15e Grand Master

Ragsf15e

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Wow, good job controlling it into such a tight spot!  That’s a really tough spot to land!  Watching the video, possibly the tree was cut by fire crews later?  It doesn’t look like it’s in the cockpit after the video stops.

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Skates97 Grand Master

Skates97

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10 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Wow, good job controlling it into such a tight spot!  That’s a really tough spot to land!  Watching the video, possibly the tree was cut by fire crews later?  It doesn’t look like it’s in the cockpit after the video stops.

And great job not trying to stretch it out which would have just resulted in stalling it in. He was so close, I can't imagine how strong the urge to get just a little further is at that point. Looks like it's right about where the red x is, if you zoom in on google maps you can see the tree he hit and in the street view you can see the fire hydrant.

Screenshot_20241125_184533_Maps.jpg.9116b128d52456e82678c8c62859cbd9.jpg

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1980Mooney Grand Master

1980Mooney

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5 hours ago, Skates97 said:

Looks like it was flown frequently. News is reporting no one injured on the ground, the two occupants suffered minor to moderate injuries. From the picture I am amazed that anyone in the front seats survived. A closer look at the picture and it appears the tree trunk went just behind the pilot seat and both front seats are turned about 45° to the left, probably what saved them. From the flight history looks like based out of Brackett (KPOC). Wonder if @MikeOH knows him?
 

 

3 hours ago, MikeOH said:

@Skates97

I don't know the guy, nor recognize the plane.

Sure glad they survived; that tree in the cockpit is nasty!

"REGISTRATION PENDING".  Another new owner......

Skates97 Grand Master

Skates97

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4 hours ago, skykrawler said:

Damn lucky to hit the fire hydrant.  Was heading straight for the tree.

 

Yes, looked okay until the left wingtip hit that pole and it turned him towards the tree. The hydrant turned him back to the right and probably saved his life. He had some room to the right side but that freight train might have been a bit intimidating. 

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Echo Mentor

Echo

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Posted (edited)

The pilot sidewall is intact.  Wow.  Literally inches.  Just a wonderful job by pilot not to stall as stated by Skates.  I can't imagine the urge to stretch when you have the ground obstacles that pilot encountered staring you in the face.  Fate is the Hunter.

IMG_3367.png

Edited by Echo
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Echo Mentor

Echo

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Trains to the right of me.  Buildings to the left.  Here I am stuck in the middle with you (tree).  (Steelers Wheel)

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redbaron1982 Experienced

redbaron1982

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Posted (edited)

Great job on not stalling the airplane and flying it all the way to the crash!

It doesn't look like he is coming with full flaps, I'm not judging, just asking to learn: is not a good idea to always approach a forced landing with full flaps to go as slow as possible?

Edited by redbaron1982
Skates97 Grand Master

Skates97

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36 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Great job on not stalling the airplane and flying it all the way to the crash!

It doesn't look like he is coming with full flaps, I'm not judging, just asking to learn: is not a good idea to always approach a forced landing with full flaps to go as slow as possible?

Full flaps brings you to the crash with the least speed/energy which I think would be preferable. He may have had the flaps up for less drag hoping to reach the airport and then when he saw he wasn't going to make it and made the mayday call had his hands full and didn't put them down. 

I was wondering what the standard width of a two lane road is looking at what he had to work with, as mentioned the train on one side and buildings poles on the other. Looked it up and a standard lane runs between 10-12 feet with the narrower found on city streets and wider on highways. Add in the center line and maybe you have around 25' to work with when you add a shoulder. That means our wings on some streets will hang over the sides if you are centerline, so pick the side without the obstacles. Just something to file away in my mind and hope I never need to recall it.

For our pilot here, according to Google maps it's about 37' wide, but the right side slopes up to the train tracks, and if he judged wrong on that side and caught the wingtip it could have turned him right into the freight train. Great job putting it down under control. Here's the view back up the street the direction he came from, you can see the first pole that took out the left wingtip, the hydrant, and the tree to the right.

image.png.88acf133e96ec3e56620afba2643f78c.png

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Echo Mentor

Echo

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That is a "pinball wizard" event.  Hope there is a security camera somewhere that captured.  Super rapid deceleration with, I am sure a lot of G-forces).  Glad all survived.

MooneyMitch Grand Master

MooneyMitch

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Wow!  So fortunate.  Flew in and out of FUL many, many times over the years.  No place to go on departure or landing other than runway. 

In another video, a fellow says he went up to the plane after crash and asked if 2 occupants were ok.  They responded yes and they stated they lost power.

Split second decisions, always hard to second guess.  I'm so glad they survived that impact. 

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00-Negative Contributor

00-Negative

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I know with hydraulic flaps and manual trim, four pumps of flaps will induce a significant nose-down attitude which will have to be fought with the left hand/yoke while the right hand then reaches down and and rolls the trim wheel several times. All of that would have to be done after clearing the trees at the end of the road. I can see why he didn't get the flaps in. He probably saw a clear stretch of road and committed. Good form. 

 

-David

Max Clark Collaborator

Max Clark

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On 11/25/2024 at 6:15 PM, Skates97 said:

Just saw a new video. Came straight in, a pole took off the left wingtip, the right wing took out a fire hydrant, and then impacted the tree. Did a good job coming in under control wings level.

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/plane-makes-emergency-landing-near-fullerton-airport-hits-tree/amp/

That video is incredible. What a great job by the pilot getting the plane on the ground. Would be really eye opening listening to the pilot narrate the events, what they were seeing/hearing, the choices presented, etc...

Good reminder to train engine out more than I am.

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Echo Mentor

Echo

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Wow!  Great video.  I thought there would be more roll out!  That hydrant and pole did their job of dissipating energy before tree.

IvanP Enthusiast

IvanP

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Very good outcome from a bad situation. Amazing airmanship in very stressful situation. not many places to put a plane down safely near KFUL. Glad they survived. Hopefully we will get the pilot's recount of events. Could landing gear up possibly avoid the collision with the tree?

MooneyMitch Grand Master

MooneyMitch

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Posted
9 hours ago, IvanP said:

Could landing gear up possibly avoid the collision with the tree?

My opinion, the airplane will stop in a shorter distance with gear retraced. In this situation, who knows.  Again, second guessing on this is hypothetical at best.   And with seconds or less to make the decision and retract the gear under the circumstances the pilot was experiencing……wow!   

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