Instrument Rating right after PPL?

[jelswick]

I'm definitely in the do it now camp.  I finished my ppl, started using it immediately flying from Ohio to Florida and Tennessee for work and thought I'd start the IR in the next year.  I ended up scaring the stuff out of myself as a new pilot coming back from FL knowing what weather was supposed to be, but not understanding it was different and landing to figure out why and could easily have killed myself with that flight.  I started the IR the next weekend and glad to have it, use it and love it.  Just adds a margin of safety when weather is prohibitive or not as it was forecast and adds a lot of utility to ownership.

I liked the King program, my family, not so much.  I had it on all of the time until confident for the written.  My family would say "oh no!" as they came into the room with those on yet again.  As M20E said in an earlier post, the pot of coffee with the video program is important!  

[231Pilot]

I would start gaining hours of cross country time by making trips using the Victor Airways.  Learn to fly them using your VOR, then use the GPS if you want, but get used to flying the airways and do it without the autopilot.  Get proficient at holding course and altitude and utilize flight following as much as you can.  After you have your 50 hours or more, then start with a CFII and learn to fly in the system.  The rating is useful for more than flying in bad weather.  First, it just makes you a better pilot, second, it simplifies transitions into and through Bravo airspace, and third, it teaches you to be more cognizant of both the aircraft's and your own capabilities and limitations.  It is hard work, but the payoff is worth every minute of it.

[231Pilot]

Quote: jelswick

As M20E said in an earlier post, the pot of coffee with the video program is important!  

[jetdriven]

Quote: sreid

  A lot of folks fly 50.5 nm cross country flights to buy a soda, turn around and come home, repeat 50 times, with the only goal of logging the required time for the instrument rating.

[FloridaMan]

YES. And you don't have to do the cross country requirement if you go into a part 141 instrument program.

Have you started your PPL training yet?

I might also add that the IR may have saved my life one night I ended up in inadvertent IMC at night. You do not see clouds ahead of you at night until you're in them. The effect of pushing through broken clouds at 140+ mph when you don't see them coming can be extremely disorienting and you must trust your instruments. The IR gives you the proficiency to watch them. 

[mrjones30]

Quote: Antares

YES. And you don't have to do the cross country requirement if you go into a part 141 instrument program.

Have you started your PPL training yet?

I might also add that the IR may have saved my life one night I ended up in inadvertent IMC at night. You do not see clouds ahead of you at night until you're in them. The effect of pushing through broken clouds at 140+ mph when you don't see them coming can be extremely disorienting and you must trust your instruments. The IR gives you the proficiency to watch them.

 

 

 

I haven't started the PPL training yet,

 

I was going to go to BayAir down here in Saint Pete but they mentioned that they are having leasing issues with the city. If the city takes over Bayair will be no more. So I checked out Cams flight on Friday and I'm going to look at a few others this next coming week, (Plant City Airport comes to mind). In the meantime while I'm looking I ordered the King learn to fly courses and I have it with me right now...This is good stuff. The videos look a little outdated and yes, the jokes are a little cheesey, but how can you forget "Red and White and you're alright"

:-)

[mrjones30]

So my plan is:

 

#1 Throuoghly study and pass all of the King courses.

#2 Read and understand my two pilot books certified by FAA.

#3 Then take my PPL.

#4 Immediately, start taking my Instrument Rating.

 

It's a lot of work but I enjoy reading about Airplanes and flying.

 

 

[mrjones30]

Quote: aerobat95

I would go ahead and start on your instrument rating. Here is the catch....just because you have it doesn't mean go out on your next flight and fly to minimums. It is my opinion that flying under the hood while good is not at all comparable to flying in hard IFR. Its just not the same. So take it easy. The one good thing about starting your IR after you PPL is it will make you a better and safer pilot. The other nice thing is that you will have the knowledge and skill set to help you get out of the weather. Even though I am instrument rated I don't like to fly in hard IMC. Its just no fun. The nice thing though is climbing through the weather and flying at 10k or 11k in VMC above all the crap weather. Can't do that unless you have a IR. So I know I ramble...but I would do it. You will be a better prepared pilot. Just know your limits....

 

 

 

 

Exactly,

I want to learn IR just in case, not because I want to fly in all of the bad weather I can find. Sometimes if you ask for trouble, you just might get it. I think the best thing you can do for yourself as well as your family and friends that go up with you is to know as much as you can, Just in case. What you don't know can and will hurt you, short or long term.

[mrjones30]

Quote: aerobat95

I would go ahead and start on your instrument rating. Here is the catch....just because you have it doesn't mean go out on your next flight and fly to minimums. It is my opinion that flying under the hood while good is not at all comparable to flying in hard IFR. Its just not the same. So take it easy. The one good thing about starting your IR after you PPL is it will make you a better and safer pilot. The other nice thing is that you will have the knowledge and skill set to help you get out of the weather. Even though I am instrument rated I don't like to fly in hard IMC. Its just no fun. The nice thing though is climbing through the weather and flying at 10k or 11k in VMC above all the crap weather. Can't do that unless you have a IR. So I know I ramble...but I would do it. You will be a better prepared pilot. Just know your limits....

 

 

 

 

Exactly,

I want to learn IR just in case, not because I want to fly in all of the bad weather I can find. Sometimes if you ask for trouble, you just might get it. I think the best thing you can do for yourself as well as your family and friends that go up with you is to know as much as you can, Just in case. What you don't know can and will hurt you, short or long term.

[mrjones30]

Quote: 201Pilot

One CFII told me, "More pilots have slept with Martha King than any other woman in America!"

 

 

That was funny!!!

 

I guess most pilots are into Cougars/Mature women

 

:-)

[Jerry 5TJ]

I started my Instrument training the day after I got the PPL.   So I am in the "don't wait" camp as well.  

I also suggest you take a class for the Instrument written, preferably one of those offered at community colleges or some FBOs.  The material is covered thoroughly, there's time to read supplemental material, and you get to pose 'what-if' questions with your fellow students and the instructor, all of which is missing in the weekend cram class or watching DVD lessons.   A majority of the material for the Instrument written is of direct use in your IFR life, unlike (I thought) the PPL course which was heavier on theoretical aspects of less day-to-day use in flying GA. 

Do as much flight training in IMC as you can, too.  If your instructor is not comfortable instructing in IMC, that's a clue:   Either she thinks the weather is too bad (itself a valuable go/ no-go lesson) or you need a different instructor. If your FBO or school has a really good simulator (rare still) that's a great advantage and I'd travel a good distance to reach such a facility.    

[jetdriven]

Quote: jerry-N5911Q

Do as much flight training in IMC as you can, too.  If your instructor is not comfortable instructing in IMC, that's a clue:   Either she thinks the weather is too bad (itself a valuable go/ no-go lesson) or you need a different instructor.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Quote: jetdriven

The margins for error are only 300 feet before an altitude violation. Ask yourself if you can have 100% ability to hold this standard while in actual IMC while doing training.  Remmeber, its his license. 

Now for the last part of your training, I totally recommend it.

[jelswick]

I cracked up at Lew's post as well seeing it this morning.  One thing fun MrJones once you have your IR and I think good practice is to flight plan yourself at an altitude that puts you into the clouds on days that the cloud layer is only a few thousand feet thick and not too low.  In that way, you know you have an easy out up or down if you need it, but it gets you comfortable flying not being able to see outside and makes the days when you "need to" (shouldn't be days when too many of us really need to if flying isn't our living) when there are not such easy outs much less stressful. 

The other 2 cents I'd add is to buy something with weather for the cockpit even if just a used Garmin 396 or 496.  People flew without them before for many years, but there's something very comforting seeing the weather yourself on that rather than relying just on your pre-planning and ATC to avoid it.  Just remember that Nexrad can be many minutes old, so use it for strategic avoidance rather than tactical (e.g. trying to pick your way through).  You're in for a lot of fun ahead.  Enjoy it and best of luck! 

[mrjones30]

Quote: jelswick

I cracked up at Lew's post as well seeing it this morning. One thing fun MrJones once you have your IR and I think good practice is to flight plan yourself at an altitude that puts you into the clouds on days that the cloud layer is only a few thousand feet thick and not too low. In that way, you know you have an easy out up or down if you need it, but it gets you comfortable flying not being able to see outside and makes the days when you "need to" (shouldn't be days when too many of us really need to if flying isn't our living) when there are not such easy outs much less stressful.

The other 2 cents I'd add is to buy something with weather for the cockpit even if just a used Garmin 396 or 496. People flew without them before for many years, but there's something very comforting seeing the weather yourself on that rather than relying just on your pre-planning and ATC to avoid it. Just remember that Nexrad can be many minutes old, so use it for strategic avoidance rather than tactical (e.g. trying to pick your way through). You're in for a lot of fun ahead. Enjoy it and best of luck!

[Becca]

Quote: jerry-N5911Q

Interesting point, Jet.   Sure, if it is turbulent in the clouds you don't take your newbie IFR student there.   But calm stratus cloud is a great learning environment.

 

[FlyDave]

I have watched this thread evolve with some very interesting banter on the subject.

In order to be a good instrument pilot, flying the airplane must be 2nd nature. Everything about flying the airplane should come naturally through good "stick and rudder skills",  confidence in your abilities (backed up with these good skills) , muscle memory, etc.. Without this you cannot be a good instrument pilot. These skills only come with time and experience.

When I bought my Mooney I was instrument rated, had 250 hours in gliders and 700 hours in my Cherokee. I got ~20 hours in the Mooney and I thought "I can fly this thing under the hood". So I took off with a friend/instructor (with a friend of his in the back seat) and went under the hood for some IFR practice. Man, was I embarrassed! A new plane and new avionics coupled with only 20 hours in the plane and avionics. There is NO substitute for time in the air.

I think someone should have ~ 100 hours when they start the IR. I remember hearing that the most dangerous pilots are those with 300 hours. They have just enough experience to think they are great pilots and not enough experience to know they aren't.

Enjoy getting your private and get some experience in the air. THEN go for the IR. Heck, you need something like 40 hours of cross country time as PIC to get the IR. Since you haven't even started your private, I personally think this conversation is a bit premature - but that's just me.

Good luck and enjoy the learning process!