Closing on Standing Ovation - Power/Prop/Speed Cheat Sheet Anyone?

[NickG]

I'm closing on an Ovation with the 310HP STC next week. My first Mooney! Just wondering if anyone had a cheat sheet with Power/Prop/Speed for various phases of flight? Yes, I'm poring over the POH but if anyone has a reference sheet they've made it would be most appreciated! Also, any other advice would be appreciated as well!

 

[LANCECASPER]

Beautiful Mooney - congratulations. The only time I ever used 2700 rpm (310hp) on the Ovation I had was for take-off and initial climb to get past the point when I could make the turn and get back to the field if necessary  - then I pulled it back for a couple reasons - engine life and noise. I never used the extra power for cruise. For the extra wear and fuel flow the speed difference didn't make any sense to me. The full power 310 hp take-offs were impressive though.

 

One thing I would double-check on this one (N916MP) is useful load. I don't think it's possible for an Ovation with TKS to have 1100 pounds useful load. I would have someone go over those numbers or maybe for your advantage in negotiating  - have them re-weigh it on different scales. Surprisingly there aren't a lot of shops that are great at re-weighing an airplane. It also amazes me how often the simple math is wrong on all of the additions and subtractions on W & B.

https://indyairsales.com/__resources/webdata/files/specsheets/1619_wb_N916MP WB.pdf

[NickG]

9 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Beautiful Mooney - congratulations. The only time I ever used 2700 rpm (310hp) on the Ovation I had was for take-off and initial climb to get past the point when I could make the turn and get back to the field if necessary  - then I pulled it back for a couple reasons - engine life and noise. I never used the extra power for cruise. For the extra wear and fuel flow the speed difference didn't make any sense to me. The full power 310 hp take-offs were impressive though.

 

One thing I would double-check on this one (N916MP) is useful load. I don't think it's possible for an Ovation with TKS to have 1100 pounds useful load. I would have someone go over those numbers or maybe for your advantage in negotiating  - have them re-weigh it on different scales. Surprisingly there aren't a lot of shops that are great at re-weighing an airplane. It also amazes me how often the simple math is wrong on all of the additions and subtractions on W & B.

https://indyairsales.com/__resources/webdata/files/specsheets/1619_wb_N916MP WB.pdf

Yes, it was weighed in 2019 at Muncie aviation after the avionics upgrade. TKS fluid was empty.

[LANCECASPER]

16 hours ago, NickG said:

Yes, it was weighed in 2019 at Muncie aviation after the avionics upgrade. TKS fluid was empty.

That part is correct. 
With no onboard oxygen that saves a few pounds, but I would go so far as to say this would be the only TKS Ovation in the world with 1100 pounds useful load. In fact I don't ever remember a non-TKS Ovation with over 1100 ponds useful load. 

But I am not the expert on TKS Ovations - @StevenL757     is since he's had two of them and he has a beautiful TKS Ovation for sale currently with 1007 lbs. useful load:
 


EDIT: I see where the mistake could easily be made though on their weight and balance - they assumed that they had full fuel in the tanks when they weighed it - so they subtracted 582.9 pounds. If they were 10 gallons off on what was in the tank that would be 60 pounds. If they were 15 gallons off, 90 pounds, etc.

[NickG]

18 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

That part is correct. 

With no onboard oxygen that saves a few pounds, but I would go so far as to say this would be the only TKS Ovation in the world with 1100 pounds useful load. In fact I don't ever remember a non-TKS Ovation with over 1100 ponds useful load. 

But I am not the expert on TKS Ovations - @StevenL757 is and he has a beautiful TKS Ovation for sale with 1007 lbs. useful load:

 

Yes, with the built in oxygen, the second alternator for the FIKI (mine is only inadvertent) that may make up for the difference. Yes, his one a beauty.

[NickG]

Can anyone help with a cheat sheet?

[Schllc]

Given the 2700 is only for t/o I don’t think any cheat sheet is necessary. 
LOP or ROP to temps and figure it out based on your individual planes cooling idiosyncrasies.  
I have owned two ovations with the 310, albeit with the g1000 so the lean page helps for the first few times your learning your plane. 
some people use 2550 to cruise, which if I recall correctly, is the max cruise rpm.  I personally never used that for the noise, and wear and tear.
2500rpm, max MP and then just figure out where she is happy.  The engine is identical to the O1 and O2, just different prop, rpm limit and FF.
You may be overthinking this a bit. The poh will get you in the ballpark.  

[LANCECASPER]

9 hours ago, NickG said:

Can anyone help with a cheat sheet?

 

 

Ovation3 STC poh and chart.pdf

 

 

[Hank]

@carusoam seems to really enjoy the 310 upgrade in his O. He may have some pointers to offer.

[NickG]

15 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

That part is correct. 
With no onboard oxygen that saves a few pounds, but I would go so far as to say this would be the only TKS Ovation in the world with 1100 pounds useful load. In fact I don't ever remember a non-TKS Ovation with over 1100 ponds useful load. 

But I am not the expert on TKS Ovations - [mention=12500]StevenL757[/mention] is since he's had two of them and he has a beautiful TKS Ovation for sale currently with 1007 lbs. useful load:
 


EDIT: I see where the mistake could easily be though on their weight and balance - they assumed that they had full fuel in the tanks when they weighed it - so they subtracted 582.9 pounds. If they were 10 gallons off on what was in the tank that would be 60 pounds. If they were 15 gallons off, 90 pounds, etc.

Here’s an almost identical Ovation that was listed here for sale a couple of years ago. This one has factory oxygen but not the TKS. Useful load of this one has UL of #1087. 

 

[Jeff_S]

I see someone has given you the official data from the STC.  The MAPA Safety Clinic has a list of power settings that you would use in an Ovation, and it is relevant because an O3 will behave like any other Ovation except at takeoff, where you can benefit from the extra HP.  But given this is a copyrighted material, it's not good mojo to share it.  However, here are my power settings for various stages of flight that I've worked out over many hundreds of hours:

Takeoff: Firewall everything until 1000', then 2600/WOT until desired altitude.  Pull back mixture to maintain desired CHTs.

Cruise: I use 2450/WOT/LOP fuel because it's a little quieter, but most folks would say 2500 RPM.  Your choice of ROP/LOP but with the GAMI injectors I like LOP for cooler CHTs with only about 5 knots TAS reduction.

Standard descent: Depends on how fast you want to descend.  Leave it where it was in cruise and just manage MP to stay below the redline if you want! But for a controlled descent that keeps about the same speed as cruise I'll dial back to 2400/20".  I would use this for an extended descent that keeps me on the vertical nav glide slope pretty nicely.

Loafing along/pleasure cruise: 2400/20"/LOP.  Gives you about 150 knots at 10.5 GPH...sounds like a J-model, doesn't it?!

IAP: 2400/20"/LOP for the outer segments, dial back to 2300/17" by the FAF, then 12"-14" down the glide path as needed to keep 100 KIAS.

In the pattern: 2300/17" to slow to gear reduction speed on downwind. Gear down/pitch down abeam the threshold, hold altitude to slow to 106 KIAS. Extend full flaps all at once and start 180° carrier turn onto final, pull MP to 12-14" as needed to maintain descent at 100 KIAS, then manage power as needed to slow to 75 KIAS over threshold.  Keep applying nose up trim...that IO-550 is heavy! Pull power over threshold, should reliably land by the first instrument approach markers.  Oh, speed brakes during the entire descent are OK by me!

Lastly, race configuration: 2600/WOT/26GPH will make you a winner and keep your engine temps in the 350°s.  Unless you're racing me, of course!  Have fun!

[Ed de C.]

I've got a similar airplane:  2008 Ovation with 310hp STC, FIKI TKS, 77 ft cubed oxygen, Amsafe belts, WX-500 stormscope, Avidyne traffic, maybe a few other things.  My useful load is 933 lbs.  I can trace that back to the factory specs of this airplane and didn't see any obvious errors in the W/B worksheets subsequent.  

I've owned this for 9 months and have poured over the POH and the limited 310hp STC data.  As the folks have said, you can use the Ovation 2 POH data for most of this.  You'll get better climb at 2,700 rpm than the POH says by maybe 300 fpm (I see up to 2,000 fpm in Michigan winter at 120 kts and light).  

To set your expectations:  The cruise speeds on the POH are unachievable in my bird with TKS.  I see an honest 170 kts true at 13 gph LOP at 8,000 feet.  At 12 gph, it's roughly 165 kts true.  I'm typically turning 2,300 rpm for these numbers.  The fuel flow is the key number when LOP as that determines your HP using a multiplier of 14.9 for our 8.5:1 compression engines.  You can take that HP calculation, convert to % power (make sure to use 280 max HP if you are referencing the POH) and then find your "book" speed expected.  I've run the engine flat out at 8,000 feet (2,700 rpm) to see where it would top out at.  It's around 185 kts true.  Mooney claims 197 kts true for the 310 hp Ovation 3 (not in the POH).  A touch of left or right rudder trim can affect my numbers, but I don't have enough data to be sure about that.

I'm at least 10 knots slow to book.  Most people here attribute this to TKS and Mooney's aggressive test protocols that remove antennas, the passenger step and who knows what else.  I've put effort into rigging the gear and the control surfaces appear to be within spec.

I find the speed of these machines is more than you need or even want when buzzing around with friends and family.  I've never wanted more speed in the terminal area.  As someone said, it breaks the sound barrier going down.  I'm pulling inches off in the descent to keep it below the yellow arc and love the flexibility the speedbrakes provide. 

Where we all could appreciate more speed is in cross country cruise.  The Acclaim guys have us beat there.  I've put away the POH book speed values and have gotten good with seeing 170 kts true on the G1000. The delta against book amounts to only a few minutes on a typical cross country.  And when the machine is running well, it's an enjoyable place to spend time.

Something that will make you smile nonetheless is the fuel economy.  My numbers suggest that the acclaim flying at our same speeds will burn 2 gph more (based on POH fuel burn figures).  The catch of course is that the Acclaim can fly at altitudes and speeds that we can't match (albeit at higher fuel flows).   

Enjoy the new bird!  Set your expectations about performance a little lower than book and you'll be happy with what you get. 

Best,

Ed

[LANCECASPER]

35 minutes ago, Ed de C. said:

I've got a similar airplane:  2008 Ovation with 310hp STC, FIKI TKS, 77 ft cubed oxygen, Amsafe belts, WX-500 stormscope, Avidyne traffic, maybe a few other things.  My useful load is 933 lbs.  I can trace that back to the factory specs of this airplane and didn't see any obvious errors in the W/B worksheets subsequent.  

That sounds right. I had a 2000 Ovation (310 hp) with air conditioning, oxygen, WX-500, Aspens, but no FIKI and my useful load was between 960-970.

 

[NickG]

Picked up the new bird and flew it home to Las Vegas from Indiana! What a machine! Still not quite comfortable getting the speed down on final but should get it nailed with some more CFI time! Had some nice solid IMC on the way west. What stable platform! 

[LANCECASPER]

26 minutes ago, NickG said:

Picked up the new bird and flew it home to Las Vegas from Indiana! What a machine! Still not quite comfortable getting the speed down on final but should get it nailed with some more CFI time! Had some nice solid IMC on the way east. What stable platform! 

 

 

At a VFR altitude?

[NickG]

18 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

At a VFR altitude?

Actually, it was my typo, we were westbound (obviously from IAN to AMA where we stopped for night). Yes, we were 10.5 there but had a block.

[NickG]

50 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

At a VFR altitude?

Other than slowing during descent, do you use the speed brakes on final? All the way to landing? The CFII I had with me said he doesn't generally use them. Interested in your experience. 

[LANCECASPER]

6 minutes ago, NickG said:

Other than slowing during descent, do you use the peed brakes on final? All the way to landing? The CFII I had with me said he doesn't generally use them. Interested in your experience. 

This has been discussed a lot on Mooneyspace. I don't personally, they don't do much at landing speeds, but some use them and swear by it. 

Here's a good place to start: 

 

[NickG]

17 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

This has been discussed a lot on Mooneyspace. I don't personally, they don't do much at landing speeds, but some use them and swear by it. 

Here's a good place to start: 

 

Thanks!!!! that's EXTREMELY helpful!!!

[carusoam]

On 5/15/2024 at 5:30 PM, NickG said:

Thanks!!!! that's EXTREMELY helpful!!!

coming in over a class B airport…

is about the only time my speed brakes get used..

 

but, if you ever need an E-descent…

be sure to know the procedure…

you will be on the ground within minutes when needed.

 

gear, prop, brakes, power, speed, all add to the descent power…

they are monster effective at Vne, hardly effective at landing speed…

-a-