Someone else misses the 201 in the market place.

[DaV8or]

Pipistrel Panthera

This is the type of direction Mooney should be going if it were to continue.  I have a feeling they had the 201 and the DA-40 in mind when they started designing. The Panthera looks promising. I guess we'll see eventually.

[mooneyman]

Definitely looks like a sleeker retractable DA-40. 200 knots on 10g/ hour sounds great. I am curious what the price point will be.

[co2bruce]

They have a cool website. Well I checked out the price list and its similar to the Cirrus (high 400 - 550 thousand). I think they are also kits. Will they be certified or experimental? They are also not coming out till 2015. 

[Steve Dawson]

They mention 300K Euro for the kit and 350K + Euros for certified.  How long does it actually take to get an aircraft like this to get certified for an experianced company like Pinstrel?

[BrianNC]

I've wondered about something concerning this. This will carry 4 full sized adults the 1000 miles. Then you have planes like Bo's and Cessnas which have a payload  (not useful load) of close to 1000 lbs. Why is it that Mooney couldn't come up with a payload after fuel like that for their planes? I know the Bravo could get a waiver for 300 lbs more for ferry flights, so it can carry it.

[KSMooniac]

Long-body Mooneys are stuck at 3368 lbs maximum gross weight, but I'm not sure which of the FAR regs are the limiting factor.  It could be stall speed (must be less than 61 knots) or landing gear strength (due to drop test requirements) or some other structural limitation in the wing, fuselage or tail.  I suspect it is the gear, but that is only my speculation.  If we could get that bumped up to 3600 or 3700 lbs...wow, that would be *very* useful.

This plane sounds nice on paper, but I'm extremely skeptical that they can deliver a certified plane that light (1500 lbs empty... or 200-300 lbs lighter than a J) while cruising 200 knots on 10 GPH, unless it is turbocharged and flying at 18,000 ft, which is not stated or implied anywhere.  I know the Columbia/Lancair/Corvalis was designed with the most modern/state-of-the-art airfoils and wing design circa 1996 and it can't hit 200 KTAS in cruise with an IO-550 (and 18ish GPH).  Lighter weight will help the Pipistrel, but I still can't believe a biggish 4-seater will come in that light.

Also, if my math is correct their claim of 4 adults/1000 miles is at the edge of their prediction... they mention full-size as 200 lbs, so using 800 lbs of butts that leaves 344 lbs for fuel, or 57 gallons.  Neglecting takeoff and climb fuel flows, 5 hours at 200 KTAS and 10gph leaves 7 gallons of reserve...good enough for 1000 miles, barely, and of course that is with no baggage allowance.  Nice marketing profile, but unlikely in the real world.

I'm still anxious to see it develop and hope they get it certified and to the US market.  I think something like 165 KTAS or perhaps 170 KTAS might be closer to reality when it is all said and done, and perhaps with a 2800 or 2900 lb gross weight after it gets through the certification wringer.  Their LSA experience won't scale-up to FAR Pt 23 the way they're predicting IMO.

[peter]

Quote: KSMooniac

I think something like 165 KTAS or perhaps 170 KTAS might be closer to reality when it is all said and done, and perhaps with a 2800 or 2900 lb gross weight after it gets through the certification wringer.  

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: Fastbyk

They mention 300K Euro for the kit and 350K + Euros for certified.  How long does it actually take to get an aircraft like this to get certified for an experianced company like Pinstrel?

[jetdriven]

Jim Bede was promising a BD-5J kit and engine altogether for 15K too, in 1976.  

[DaV8or]

Quote: GeorgePerry

Saying they are going to produce a 4 place, 200knot, 10Gal/hr plane for $460,000 USD is one thing.  Actually doing it is another. 

Getting the production rates up to speed and through the nearly insurmoutable FAA certification process is not going to be easy or inexpensive.  Just look at what  Dale Klapmeier had to do to bring the SR-20 to market.

Don't get me wrong, I WOULD LOVE to see this come to market at that price point...but I'm more than a bit skeptical if it's "realistically" doable.

[1964-M20E]

How about these categories small 6 places or less piston aircraft:

 

1. 
   
2. Certified – (factory built certified aircraft) all current rules apply
   
3. Factory Built – (factory built non-certified aircraft) Owner can perform all maintenance functions and modifications having an IA do bi-annual inspections (annual by owner, A&P or IA every other year).  Any owner of a certified aircraft can have his plane placed in this category all be it a one way street unless he can demonstrate no major changes to the type certificate has been made.
   
4. Experimental class 1- Owner built and can perform all maintenance functions and modifications and do annual inspections
   
5. Experimental class 2- non-builder Owner can perform all maintenance functions and modifications having an IA do bi-annual inspections (annual by owner, A&P or IA every other year).
   
6. Categories 2, 3 & 4 can use any available avionics
   

 

The manufacturers could still produce the certified planes if they wanted to or they could produce the same plane with the Factory Built non-certified label instead of certified.  Experimental kit manufactures could even build the planes completely for the owners but then it would be listed as class 2.

 

I’ll play devils advocate for a minute. 

One drawback to this could be the possibility of fewer GA mechanics available. Prop shops, avionics shops, engine shops would probably survive and thrive but the local GA general mechanic shop might experience some changes.

[1964-M20E]

sorry wrong spot