Bravo Overhead lights went out

[Patrick Horan]

I was flying at night tonight, I adjusted the overhead vent and all of a sudden the overhead lights/baggage lights went out. I pulled the lights to out to see if any wires got pulled but nothing looks unusual. I do know the vent cable does restrict the motion of the lights.

Any ideas what happened?

Edited February 13, 2024 by Patrick Horan

[LANCECASPER]

If I remember correctly there’s a light switch on the pilot’s armrest. That shuts off all interior lights so your passengers don’t leave one on. Since all of them are off I would check to see if there is power going through there.

If the overhead cable has worn through the insulation on the wire that could have shorted it out, but it should have tripped the breaker. You might have to re-reroute the wires above a little and maybe zip tie them out of the way of the cable.

[Patrick Horan]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

If I remember correctly there’s a light switch on the pilot’s armrest. That shuts off all interior lights so your passengers don’t leave one on. Since all of them are off I would check to see if there is power going through there.

If the overhead cable has worn through the insulation on the wire that could have shorted it out, but it should have tripped the breaker. You might have to re-reroute the wires above a little and maybe zip tie them out of the way of the cable.

Ok I'll check that. I was just strange how I saw them working. Then boom, done

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, Patrick Horan said:

Ok I'll check that. I was just strange how I saw them working. Then boom, done

Sounds like a circuit breaker popped. I don’t remember if 53Z had any circuit breakers in the avionics bay in the back. The newer ones have at least a couple breakers back there for sure.

[Fritz1]

How did you get the overhead lights removed? Is it just a bayonet lock? two of my four lights stopped working, think just the bulbs burnt out, did not replace them jet because I thought the headliner has to be taken down

[LANCECASPER]

7 minutes ago, Fritz1 said:

How did you get the overhead lights removed? Is it just a bayonet lock? two of my four lights stopped working, think just the bulbs burnt out, did not replace them jet because I thought the headliner has to be taken down

If I remember correctly they just pull straight out.

[Patrick Horan]

2 hours ago, Fritz1 said:

How did you get the overhead lights removed? Is it just a bayonet lock? two of my four lights stopped working, think just the bulbs burnt out, did not replace them jet because I thought the headliner has to be taken down

They just pulled out!

[Patrick Horan]

10 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Sounds like a circuit breaker popped. I don’t remember if 53Z had any circuit breakers in the avionics bay in the back. The newer ones have at least a couple breakers back there for sure.

I couldn't find any circuit breakers that tie to the interior lights on the panel. I think there are some  circuit breakers in the hack. I just dont know where they would be.

[LANCECASPER]

I couldn't find any circuit breakers that tie to the interior lights on the panel. I think there are some  circuit breakers in the hack. I just dont know where they would be.

In the Acclaim there are two on the tail side of the baggage compartment







and I believe three on the “shelf” in between the two batteries.

[Patrick Horan]

I'll look 

[Patrick Horan]

16 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

In the Acclaim there are two on the tail side of the baggage compartment







and I believe three on the “shelf” in between the two batteries.

I couldn't find any circuit breakers in the back or any circuit breakers related to panel lights.

[LANCECASPER]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Horan said:

I couldn't find any circuit breakers in the back or any circuit breakers related to panel lights.

Hmm, ok. One of your original factory breakers has to be protecting that circuit. A schematic would tell you which one.

Is it possible that whatever happened when you adjusted the air vent shorted and burned out the four light bulbs before the breaker popped? I'm reaching here, but maybe.

I would take a multimeter and see if you are getting power to the lights after you turn on the Master and the switch that's on the pilot's arm rest. Then I would shut everything off and take down the center headliner and look around at the wiring.

 

Also completely unrelated, you have a 2 amp breaker on your second row from the bottom, third from the right that is not labeled. It might not be used for anything and was just there for an option down the road, but what makes me ask is that it looks like a breaker that was added later, probably during the G500 upgrade.  Probably not important. 

[LANCECASPER]

[mention=20045]Patrick Horan[/mention] I was looking at an unrelated post about Battery Minders and [mention=15047]Rick Junkin[/mention] had posted a picture of the area around his batteries and when I saw his in-line clock fuse it dawned on me that  the earlier Bravos (before the baggage compartment light was put on a timer) did not have a breaker for overhead lights - it's on the clock circuit.
Check that fuse in the picture and I think you'll find your solution


 - - - - - 
You also may see another fuse back there that's not labeled that's not your clock fuse. (This has nothing to do with your overhead lights, but may throw you off if you see another in-line fuse.)
There was a service bulletin M20-275 that came out for serial numbers 1-279 of the M20M reagrding trickle charging the battery not being used during flight. (If that hasn't been done, it's a simple one to do.)
 

[Patrick Horan]

4 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

[mention=20045]Patrick Horan[/mention] I was looking at an unrelated post about Battery Minders and [mention=15047]Rick Junkin[/mention] had posted a picture of the area around his batteries and when I saw his in-line clock fuse it dawned on me that  the earlier Bravos (before the baggage compartment light was put on a timer) did not have a breaker for overhead lights - it's on the clock circuit.
Check that fuse in the picture and I think you'll find your solution


 - - - - - 
You also may see another fuse back there that's not labeled that's not your clock fuse. (This has nothing to do with your overhead lights, but may throw you off if you see another in-line fuse.)
There was a service bulletin M20-275 that came out for serial numbers 1-279 of the M20M reagrding trickle charging the battery not being used during flight. (If that hasn't been done, it's a simple one to do.)
 

I think this bulletin was done. Interesting enough. I have four of those glass fuses bayonet holders. All 4 of those glass fuses blew. Also, the wire for the clock fuse broke. I have no idea what the other three bayonet holders go to because everything else is running fine besides the lights.

[LANCECASPER]

I think this bulletin was done. Interesting enough. I have four of those glass fuses bayonet holders. All 4 of those glass fuses blew. Also, the wire for the clock fuse broke. I have no idea what the other three bayonet holders go to because everything else is running fine besides the lights.

You should actually have one for each battery for that service bulletin


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[Patrick Horan]

4 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

You should actually have one for each battery for that service bulletin


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Looks like that's what those two of those fuse holders are for. 1 is for the clock, and the other is for......idk! I cannot find anything in the wire diagram 

[LANCECASPER]

Looks like that's what those two of those fuse holders are for. 1 is for the clock, and the other is for......idk! I cannot find anything in the wire diagram 

That bottom picture is of the Littel brand fuse holder mentioned in the service bulletin


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[LANCECASPER]

The fuses mentioned in the trickle chargers, for the service bulletin are the slo-blow type. They actually kind of look like a little spring inside of the glass. It’s not unusual to see those blown. The trickle chargers weren’t the greatest design.


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[Patrick Horan]

15 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

The fuses mentioned in the trickle chargers, for the service bulletin are the slo-blow type. They actually kind of look like a little spring inside of the glass. It’s not unusual to see those blown. The trickle chargers weren’t the greatest design.


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Actually, looks like those are supposed to be 10am fuses according to the service bulletin 

[Patrick Horan]

34 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

The fuses mentioned in the trickle chargers, for the service bulletin are the slo-blow type. They actually kind of look like a little spring inside of the glass. It’s not unusual to see those blown. The trickle chargers weren’t the greatest design.


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Now the question is why did all these fuse blow? Maybe they have been blown for a while and Noone checked 

[LANCECASPER]

36 minutes ago, Patrick Horan said:

Now the question is why did all these fuse blow? Maybe they have been blown for a while and Noone checked 

I don't think these are in any way connected to each other. I think you're correct - that your trickle charge fuses have been blown awhile. This is not really published anywhere (but Mooneyspace), but on Long Bodies don't switch from BAT 1 to BAT 2 or vice versa with the Master switch on or with the airplane running. There is an  expensive relay you can blow and I think these Slo-Blo fuses also get blown often because of switching batteries under voltage. (I exercise both batteries, but on odd days I use battery 1 and one even days battery 2, as a means of making sure both get used.)

Regarding your lights going back to your first post, you said "I adjusted the overhead vent and all of a sudden the overhead lights/baggage lights went out". Thats where I would be looking to solve that - looking for a chafed wire or something close to that vent that is the cause.

[LANCECASPER]

By the way I have 10 amp Slo-Blo fuses left over from my last Bravo. If you need them PM me.

[daytonabch04]

3 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I don't think these are in any way connected to each other. I think you're correct - that your trickle charge fuses have been blown awhile. This is not really published anywhere (but Mooneyspace), but on Long Bodies don't switch from BAT 1 to BAT 2 or vice versa with the Master switch on or with the airplane running. There is an  expensive relay you can blow and I think these Slo-Blo fuses also get blown often because of switching batteries under voltage. (I exercise both batteries, but on odd days I use battery 1 and one even days battery 2, as a means of making sure both get used.)

Regarding your lights going back to your first post, you said "I adjusted the overhead vent and all of a sudden the overhead lights/baggage lights went out". Thats where I would be looking to solve that - looking for a chafed wire or something close to that vent that is the cause.

From what I read in the POH, the plane should be started on BAT 1 only.  So I guess you can switch to BAT 2 while running, but avionics OFF.  I flew about 35 mins this weekend, went to get fuel and after fueling up, the BAT died on me and couldn't get it restarted.  I think my APU plug is bad, so now I'm waiting on a new BAT to be delivered.  I couldn't get it to crank over on BAT 1 or 2. 

[LANCECASPER]

15 minutes ago, daytonabch04 said:

From what I read in the POH, the plane should be started on BAT 1 only.  So I guess you can switch to BAT 2 while running, but avionics OFF.  I flew about 35 mins this weekend, went to get fuel and after fueling up, the BAT died on me and couldn't get it restarted.  I think my APU plug is bad, so now I'm waiting on a new BAT to be delivered.  I couldn't get it to crank over on BAT 1 or 2. 

No, the POH says during pre-flight choose the battery has the highest charge. Later during the Starting section it mentions if it doesn't start on BAT 1 switch to BAT 2, so it's perfectly alright to start on either battery . .  as long as you aren't hooked up to Ground Power.

The Ground Power jack is connected to BAT 1 so if you get an external start power your switch has to be on BAT 1. Once it's started I would not switch to the other battery for many reasons, one of which is that you don't want 70 amps of alternator power trying to fast charge your dead battery. That's a quick way to shorten the life of a battery or an alternator. 

If your battery was dead after flying for 35 minutes I would check your alternator(s) or voltage regulator.  If it won't crank on either battery maybe your starter relay. Of course all bets are off if you are using Gill batteries. On my first Bravo I went through many Gills. I was up to my gills in the hangar with dead GIlls. On the second Bravo I learned about Concordes. I'm not real bright so on the third Bravo since there was a three week wait on Concordes I bought one of the new sealed Gills (7243 I think). It lasted one year and maybe one or two months. Never again.

Check with @mike_elliott or Don Maxwell about switching batteries while it's running - they've made comments on here before about not doing that and how expensive the relay is that doing that blows.

[daytonabch04]

8 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

No, the POH says during pre-flight choose the battery has the highest charge. Later during the Starting section it mentions if it doesn't start on BAT 1 switch to BAT 2, so it's perfectly alright to start on either battery . .  as long as you aren't hooked up to Ground Power.

The Ground Power jack is connected to BAT 1 so if you get an external start power your switch has to be on BAT 1. Once it's started I would not switch to the other battery for many reasons, one of which is that you don't want 70 amps of alternator power trying to fast charge your dead battery. That's a quick way to shorten the life of a battery or an alternator. 

If your battery was dead after flying for 35 minutes I would check your alternator(s) or voltage regulator.  If it won't crank on either battery maybe your starter relay. Of course all bets are off if you are using Gill batteries. On my first Bravo I went through many Gills. I was up to my gills in the hangar with dead GIlls. On the second Bravo I learned about Concordes. I'm not real bright so on the third Bravo since there was a three week wait on Concordes I bought one of the new sealed Gills (7243 I think). It lasted one year and maybe one or two months. Never again.

Check with @mike_elliott or Don Maxwell about switching batteries while it's running - they've made comments on here before about not doing that and how expensive the relay is that doing that blows.

I have 2 Concordes, but the last time I can find in the logs it being replaced is 2017.  So maybe it got me.  I've heard about Gills but haven't used them.  I'm hoping it's not an alternator or voltage regulator.  Should know in the next day or two hopefully.  For now, my plane is AOG. :/