New Panel for my Bravo--now a 21st century airplane

[LANCECASPER]

19 minutes ago, NickG said:

What was the serial number when they went to electric speed brakes?

All of the '89 M20Ms (0001 - 0035) had vacuum speed brakes and some of the '90 M20Ms (0036-0084) did. I am not sure exactly which number was the cut-off, but if memory serves me, it was somewhere in the 50's. Someone will chime in and clarify I'm sure.

[dcastor]

Asked for a quote for a JPI EDM-900 into my Bravo and the quote came back north of 17,000.  Ugh.  80 man-hrs to install.  Really?

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, dcastor said:

Asked for a quote for a JPI EDM-900 into my Bravo and the quote came back north of 17,000.  Ugh.  80 man-hrs to install.  Really?

In 2020 I paid 4400 labor (40 hours) to have a JPI930 installed. I was already having a new panel cut so that wasn't part of the 40 hours labor.

Is the $17,000 including cutting a new panel and some other things also?

[Aerodon]

On 2/16/2024 at 8:47 AM, dcastor said:

Asked for a quote for a JPI EDM-900 into my Bravo and the quote came back north of 17,000.  Ugh.  80 man-hrs to install.  Really?

During an annual, the cowl is off already.  40 hours is enough to do a full install if you have the tools and parts on hand.  The first thing to look at is the fuel transducer and make a decision to either make up or order the fuel hoses.  On the Continental, it's hard to access the magneto (RPM) and oil temp probe (some baffling needs to be removed).  OAT is a little tedious if you want to route the wire out to the RH wing like the factory did.  

And there is quite a difference between list and street price of the EDM900 itself.  And if you wait until the next rebate, another $400 or so off.  Need to find someone that will let you order and bring the EDM900 to the shop.

 

Aerodon

 

 

[Jetpilot86]

On 2/16/2024 at 10:47 AM, dcastor said:

Asked for a quote for a JPI EDM-900 into my Bravo and the quote came back north of 17,000.  Ugh.  80 man-hrs to install.  Really?

I’ve heard the same number of hours from Maxwell.  

[ZamF16]

Update:  I have been flying the new setup for a few months now.  I love the G3X and the GFC500 overall.  However, I am having an issue when using the GFC500 coupled to the G3X and the associated AHRS.  I am get pitch oscillations in altitude hold and on Vertical Speed and IAS hold.  It is about 1 degree up and down which in level flight creates up to a +/- 300 fpm oscillation, like being in a boat on the ocean.  It goes away in attitude hold.  It also goes away, if I couple the GFC500 to the G5 and it’s associated AHRS.  Garmin has analyzed the flight data several times and has proposed we swap the G3X AHRS (already tried this once).  I am waiting for them to send the new unit, then we will see if there is any difference. 

I did notice several posts about pitch oscillations in short body Mooneys with the GFC500, so it seems to be more common that I thought.  Does anyone have insight into others that have had the GFC500 pitch oscillations and how they resolved it?
 

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, ZamF16 said:

Update:  I have been flying the new setup for a few months now.  I love the G3X and the GFC500 overall.  However, I am having an issue when using the GFC500 coupled to the G3X and the associated AHRS.  I am get pitch oscillations in altitude hold and on Vertical Speed and IAS hold.  It is about 1 degree up and down which in level flight creates up to a +/- 300 fpm oscillation, like being in a boat on the ocean.  It goes away in attitude hold.  It also goes away, if I couple the GFC500 to the G5 and it’s associated AHRS.  Garmin has analyzed the flight data several times and has proposed we swap the G3X AHRS (already tried this once).  I am waiting for them to send the new unit, then we will see if there is any difference. 

I did notice several posts about pitch oscillations in short body Mooneys with the GFC500, so it seems to be more common that I thought.  Does anyone have insight into others that have had the GFC500 pitch oscillations and how they resolved it?
 

Buried in a few of these threads, some had success, others didn't.

 

 

 

 

[ZamF16]

On 4/30/2024 at 2:48 PM, LANCECASPER said:

Buried in a few of these threads, some had success, others didn't.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Lancecasper.  I finally got through the pages of discussion.  Unfortunately, I didn’t see many answers, just lots of mostly unresolved issues,  However, I did discover a lot of people with similar symptoms.  I will continue to work with Garmin on a solution.

[Rick Junkin]

5 hours ago, ZamF16 said:

Thanks, Lancecasper.  I finally got through the pages of discussion.  Unfortunately, I didn’t see many answers, just lots of mostly unresolved issues,  However, I did discover a lot of people with similar symptoms.  I will continue to work with Garmin on a solution.

There was a revision to the GFC500 Gains Addendum for the M20J & K that identified optional gain settings for those airplanes experiencing pitch issues. The new gains work remarkably well for those airplanes. Unfortunately there was no revision for the M20M/R/S gains addendum.

Notably, the original baseline gain set for the M20J/K is almost identical to the gain set for the M20M/R/S. A number of J/Ks had pitch issues with the baseline gain set that were resolved by the revised optional gain set. Logic will lead you from here.

Cheers,
Junkman

[Pinecone]

8 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

There was a revision to the GFC500 Gains Addendum for the M20J & K that identified optional gain settings for those airplanes experiencing pitch issues. The new gains work remarkably well for those airplanes. Unfortunately there was no revision for the M20M/R/S gains addendum.

Notably, the original baseline gain set for the M20J/K is almost identical to the gain set for the M20M/R/S. A number of J/Ks had pitch issues with the baseline gain set that were resolved by the revised optional gain set. Logic will lead you from here.

Of course, no one would ever try the revised gain settings in an M/R/S.....

I was talking to my avionics shop and wondering why Garmin required specific gain settings for the STC, and not a range.  Gain settings exist to fine tune installations to the specific airframe.

He has done installs in EAB aircraft where there are no gain settings, not even starting ones.  He recently did an RV-8, so went to the VAF forums and got some gain settings as a starting point.

[Rick Junkin]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Of course, no one would ever try the revised gain settings in an M/R/S.....

Exactly 

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

He has done installs in EAB aircraft where there are no gain settings, not even starting ones.  He recently did an RV-8, so went to the VAF forums and got some gain settings as a starting point.

Appendix A - FLIGHT TEST PLAN FOR AUTOPILOT TUNING in the experimental version of the G3X Touch installation manual has you starting from scratch while AIRBORNE and making real-time adjustments to the gain parameters in a specific order to suit your performance desires. I'm not advocating anyone do this with a certified airplane, but it does provide context for the capability and flexibility of the GFC500 with enough safety factor that Garmin is comfortable with recommending airborne gain adjustments for EABs. It's apples and oranges comparing EAB to certified with the wide differences in the regulations governing each, but does provide some perspective. It's the same GFC500.

Cheers,
Junkman