430w or 175 in vintage Mooney?

[Rmfriday]

I’ll start of by clarifying that I am a lower time VFR pilot with the intention of eventually getting my instrument rating.

my current panel is a KX-155 w glide slope, 196 comm, and 327 transponder. Most everything I do I via ForeFlight and the sentry.

I am thinking I would like to get a decent navigator and possibly use my plane as my IFR trainer but I don’t think this is my “forever” plane and don’t want to double my investment into the panel.

if I get a decent used 430w I could get rid of the 155 and free up some space in the stack and the 430 can legally “drive” by Brittian AccuTrack/Accuflight but I am putting in outdated equipment that support may be limited on. 
if I go with the 175 my panel will get a little crammed/busy with everything in single stack but it all should fit. A 175 is about the same as a used 430W but should be much newer tech and be supported for quite a while yet. The only real downfall is that I don’t think it can legally drive the Brittian.

I am trying to find a solution that is both budget friendly and is something my A&P can do as I don’t want to have to go to a avionics shop for this go round, but definitely would if it where to be a more complete upgrade.

anything thing I am missing in all this?

[ShuRugal]

I’ll start of by clarifying that I am a lower time VFR pilot with the intention of eventually getting my instrument rating.
my current panel is a KX-155 w glide slope, 196 comm, and 327 transponder. Most everything I do I via ForeFlight and the sentry.
I am thinking I would like to get a decent navigator and possibly use my plane as my IFR trainer but I don’t think this is my “forever” plane and don’t want to double my investment into the panel.
if I get a decent used 430w I could get rid of the 155 and free up some space in the stack and the 430 can legally “drive” by Brittian AccuTrack/Accuflight but I am putting in outdated equipment that support may be limited on. 
if I go with the 175 my panel will get a little crammed/busy with everything in single stack but it all should fit. A 175 is about the same as a used 430W but should be much newer tech and be supported for quite a while yet. The only real downfall is that I don’t think it can legally drive the Brittian.
I am trying to find a solution that is both budget friendly and is something my A&P can do as I don’t want to have to go to a avionics shop for this go round, but definitely would if it where to be a more complete upgrade.
anything thing I am missing in all this?

I wouldn't go for the 430. Garmin has been working to kill it off and coerce people to upgrade to a newer model line for years.

If something ever breaks in the 430, you'll be hit with a flat-rate repair charge for it (until Garmin discontinues that service), and the price for that repair has only been climbing.

Better to save your money and buy a unit which is still actually in production. If your panel has space for a 430, then it also has space for an Avidyne 440, which uses the same tray. I don't know the autopilot compatibility of the Avidyne off the top of my head, though.

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk

[Bartman]

If budget is a concern and you are good with a stepwise upgrade approach then consider the 430w. You could fly it for 2-3 years, then trade it in (sell it) for an upgrade to the Avidyne IFD 440 which is a simple slide-in replacement. 

[The Other Red Baron]

If you're uncertain this is your forever plane I wouldn't throw a penny into the panel that you don't need to.  Fly the hell out of it and upgrade.  Unless you just hate money!

[Ragsf15e]

I know it’s more, but I’d rather do the 355 if you want the comm and nav combined.  Avidyne 440 also a good choice.  I have a 430w and like it but I wouldn’t install one now if I didn’t already have it.

Whatever you do, make sure your ap is comfortable with the install because it’s going to be pretty serious… some of them would balk at that much wiring, configuring, etc. (not all)

[DXB]

11 hours ago, Rmfriday said:

I’ll start of by clarifying that I am a lower time VFR pilot with the intention of eventually getting my instrument rating.

my current panel is a KX-155 w glide slope, 196 comm, and 327 transponder. Most everything I do I via ForeFlight and the sentry.

I am thinking I would like to get a decent navigator and possibly use my plane as my IFR trainer but I don’t think this is my “forever” plane and don’t want to double my investment into the panel.

if I get a decent used 430w I could get rid of the 155 and free up some space in the stack and the 430 can legally “drive” by Brittian AccuTrack/Accuflight but I am putting in outdated equipment that support may be limited on. 
if I go with the 175 my panel will get a little crammed/busy with everything in single stack but it all should fit. A 175 is about the same as a used 430W but should be much newer tech and be supported for quite a while yet. The only real downfall is that I don’t think it can legally drive the Brittian.

I am trying to find a solution that is both budget friendly and is something my A&P can do as I don’t want to have to go to a avionics shop for this go round, but definitely would if it where to be a more complete upgrade.

anything thing I am missing in all this?

A 175 will have much longer service life and value when you sell the plane over a 430.  

[TPC]

@Rmfriday

Referencing your two options, I'd go with the Garmin 175. You'll gain the flight plan transfer feature from both Foreflight and Garmin Pilot. The Garmin 175 will need a NAV indicator. I'm not sure if you have room for 2 NAV indicators (1 for KX-155 & 1 for GPS), but that would a nice redundant package. 

[ZMERC]

13 hours ago, Rmfriday said:

eventually getting my instrument rating.

my current panel is a KX-155 w glide slope, 196 comm, and 327 transponder. Most everything I do I via ForeFlight and the sentry.

I am thinking I would like to get a decent navigator and possibly use my plane as my IFR trainer

looks like your plane is already IFR ready, unless want to train IFR in something more modern (I get that 100%).  New avionics is a slippery slope lol.  I just needed to update an old transponder that was failing and ended up with this.  Added Aspen Pro Max, PX8000G and GNX 375, removed vacuum.  Because once I saw the capability of the newer avionics it was easy to justify why I should add enough "other equipment" to be able to use it to the fullest.  Not sure if it drives the AccuTrak, but it makes the STEC-30 a very capable auto pilot.  

[bcg]

If you're choosing between those 2, the 175 is the obvious choice. Having the NAV/COM of the 430W is nice but, the 175 is so much more intuitive and you can transfer back and forth over BT.

I have a 175 and honestly wish I'd spent just a little more for the GNC355, install labor is the same. I'm happy with my stack overall though.

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[Utah20Gflyer]

How you are going to indicate the data from the new gps navigator is an important consideration.  I considered a gps175 and a 106B CDI as the most budget option.  In the end I went with a GNC 355 and a GI 275 HSI.   To me it just didn’t make sense to spend 3k on a CDI when I knew I wanted a HSI.  You might want to consider a G5 or GI 275 HSI, they are nice!
 

The 430 is still an option as there will be lots of units coming out of planes and you have the Avidyne upgrade path available.  The real killer to a GPS navigator is the loss of database updates which I don’t see happening for a long time.   Given the choice I think I’d go for the GPS175.  

[Bob E]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:41 PM, Rmfriday said:

I am trying to find a solution that is both budget friendly and is something my A&P can do as I don’t want to have to go to a avionics shop for this go round, but definitely would if it where to be a more complete upgrade.

anything thing I am missing in all this?

Not sure if it's something you're "missing," but here's my two cents' worth:

• The KX-155 with glide slope is basically a forever radio. It won't become obsolete until they eliminate the ILS, which isn't going to happen.  Keep it.
• Ditto for your KY-196. 
• A used Garmin 400W (a 430 without the nav/comms) can be purchased for even less than the cost of a 430.  (About $4000, not including installation, compared with about $11-12,000 for a 650).  Aside from being budget-friendly, a 400W would accomplish several things: 
  • First, by keeping your GPS separate from your nav/comm and comm radios, you avoid a single point of failure. (Accidentally trip your avionics master switch and the Garmin will take seemingly forever -- when you're airborne -- to reboot, and then you'll have to go through the menus to set it up again. The 155 and 196 are is instant-on, and they don't lose their frequency settings.) 
  • Second, since the 400W is a pure GPS unit, you avoid having to use menus to operate the radios. Nothing is simpler than a KX-155 when you're trying to update your approach leg on your GPS, and ATC gives you a frequency change!
  • Third, with a combination of KX-155 and 400W you can always navigate with two systems simultaneously - one as a primary and the other as a cross-check.
  • Some other pilots have told me that touch screens in the newer GPS units are sometimes a hassle in turbulence as compared to the knobs and buttons on the 4xx series.  (I haven't had a problem with the iPad's touch screens, so I doubt that it's much of an issue.)
  • The 400W (like the 430W) will interface with the Garmin Canbus and thus with all Canbus-compatible Garmin products you might add in the future:  G5's, transponders, and FlightSteam (bluetooth interface to iPads), etc. 
• The 4xx series are extremely reliable. Their biggest disadvantage is their antiquated data card -- you have to download the navigation database update to a spare data card every 28 days and then swap out the card in the 4xx unit.  Antiquated, but it works fine. Whenever my Foreflight wants to auto-update, I update the data card as well and the next time I go out to the aircraft, I take my iPads AND data card rather than just iPads. There are tons of 430s around and the data cards and software will be available for many years to come.

See my panel below. VERY simple and easy to use combination.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Bob E

[Pinecone]

FYI, I fly airplanes with Garmin 400, 430, 650 (and Xi) and G1000.

My GTN-650, the comms seem to come on pretty quickly, even before the system is fully up and navigating.

The 430 (and 650) has VOR/ILS capability.  In my setup (Aspen 100 now) I can put the VOR on a RMI needle on the HSI portion while primarily navigating with the GPS.  And having a 155 as my second radio, I have VOR/ILS capability still.

What menus to change the frequency?  I turn the knob.  If I am in the middle of something else, I write down the frequency assigned (do this for ALL frequency changes), and then switch when I am done.

If I were putting an 430 or similar, I would not keep two 155s.  I have a 650 and an 155 currently in my panel.

The big downside to a 400 or 430 is that Garmin is near sunsetting support.  They are running out of parts for the 25 year old design.  So you could be replacing it again somewhat soon.

 

[Rmfriday]

Thanks for all the input

i think I am going to go with a 175, I just want to make sure everything is going to fit in a single stack. It will be tight but I think/hope it will all fit…

mill post some pictures once I get started..