Hangar Project - Oxygen Filling Setup

[JoshK]

I would think swapping your tank would be preferable as you would no longer have to worry about periodic hydro tests yet you 'own' the tank so no rent.

It’s a double edged sword

Hydro on a steel industrial tank is good for 5 or 10 years, I forget which right now.

If you buy a brand new tank it comes with a new hydro from this year. If you go to swap it you’re going to get back some beat ass POS with a total roll of the dice on when it was hydro’d last

If your next fill comes after the time when the exchange tank comes due for hydro they’re going to stick you with the bill for hydro even though you swapped them a new tank 3 months ago.

Over 5 years it costs the price of the tank to own it in rent. Ultimately if I’m using them at a pace where it makes sense to own I can always buy tanks and tuen in my rentals.

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[wombat]

Called a local branch of, Norco (in Wenatchee, WA) and talked to Chris

They have S size bottles for sale at $459.29  or rental @  $13/month

K bottles are for sale at $757.97

For doing the exchanges:   S bottles cost $28.70 and  K bottles cost: $53.64

I can go to them with any S or K bottle (as long as it's not marked as owned by another company) and they'll count it as mine and I can exchange it at the direct exchange cost.  Alternately, I can just turn in multiple smaller bottles for a discount on the larger ones.

 

So now I'm on the hunt for any compressed gas cylinders.   

[JoshK]

Called a local branch of, Norco (in Wenatchee, WA) and talked to Chris
They have S size bottles for sale at $459.29  or rental @  $13/month
K bottles are for sale at $757.97
For doing the exchanges:   S bottles cost $28.70 and  K bottles cost: $53.64
I can go to them with any S or K bottle (as long as it's not marked as owned by another company) and they'll count it as mine and I can exchange it at the direct exchange cost.  Alternately, I can just turn in multiple smaller bottles for a discount on the larger ones.
 
So now I'm on the hunt for any compressed gas cylinders.   

That’s a pretty good arrangement.

Around here the local conglomerate is Keen. They don’t sell anything bigger than 80 ft in Oxygen…


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[A64Pilot]

I’d look on facebook market place or whatever has replaced Craig’s list by now for a welding set up, that gives you a torch, regs and hoses, the wheeled cart and an acetylene cylinder. I don’t know what they go for, but maybe less than a new O2 tank?

I gave mine away years ago

[wombat]

3 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I’d look on facebook market place or whatever has replaced Craig’s list by now for a welding set up, that gives you a torch, regs and hoses, the wheeled cart and an acetylene cylinder. I don’t know what they go for, but maybe less than a new O2 tank?

I gave mine away years ago

I've got an oxy-acetylene rig at home already and am considering just exchanging that O2 cylinder for ABO, and using it for whatever I need on a given day.   ABO will combine with acetylene just fine.   And the pressure differences are enough to make sure that there is never any back contamination of the Oxygen bottle.  I mean, I suppose if I totally emptied out the O2 bottle and then hooked it back to the torch, opened it up, it would backflow, and if I *THEN* went back to my plane, completely emptied it, and *THEN* tried to refill it from the now-contaminated bottle, that would be bad.

But yeah, Craigslist or FB Marketplace or whatever is going to be my best bet for having a dedicated tank.

I know I can get one for maybe $200 or $300, and I'll keep my eyes out for something cheaper.

 

[A64Pilot]

Like you say a 200 PSI acetylene is not going to back flow into a 2000 PSI O2 tank but if you don’t mind advice from an old oilfield welder buy yourself a set of back flow preventers for your torch 

Here I looked it up https://www.amazon.com/hz/mobile/mission?p=Ugtnfet0UfvYSyARi6RiThghuzshPxH0a6o2BA%2F5SVq1ilwD4eGSmcVfqC2Oe49eeIV0pdL7WgJlVHNFhD3JMFuE8LSV4dagjQe%2Bwbh7HhCvMjD%2FK6rhMT%2BicjWCxjGjUWUTmCwZPGQ0TYEdzDMDnW8b8OLdajJcSqJoF%2FF348czJpkP%2BM0xc33SO2RuXOethxzXa4Mqj3oBdV3xR0LF5V5wLETBpZE%2B8a8pxdiEf1CLBFBhEMc3wozI4VO0M%2BSiAshCgHzEnyxT6W2zafg34%2B6cDyrccNP4P4mZ3L195TGlXBKoIs4CLJyhFk2lALS%2Bmkd%2B4QkEpzz0DgGpBbxZO4%2FQ1jAA%2BKFIvP4t3KlxLxnbG0h5ex0v%2FimBtgzUDJi7g%2F1xiFDQ95F8jHsjYn4Jtw%3D%3D&ref_=ci_mcx_mi&pf_rd_r=ZTJSFGMQTGHGN9708BNN&pf_rd_p=b80cecd8-43c1-4955-af2d-bd2ab15b2bc4&pd_rd_r=ebe103bb-835e-49ce-8aa6-ce9ef7ab90ac&pd_rd_w=pmgYJ&pd_rd_wg=jNCj5

$15 to $20 on Amazon called maybe flashback arrestor or similar, somehow once in a blue moon the flame can jump back into the torch and bad things happen then.

[N201MKTurbo]

15 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Like you say a 200 PSI acetylene is not going to back flow into a 2000 PSI O2 tank but if you don’t mind advice from an old oilfield welder buy yourself a set of back flow preventers for your torch 

Here I looked it up https://www.amazon.com/hz/mobile/mission?p=Ugtnfet0UfvYSyARi6RiThghuzshPxH0a6o2BA%2F5SVq1ilwD4eGSmcVfqC2Oe49eeIV0pdL7WgJlVHNFhD3JMFuE8LSV4dagjQe%2Bwbh7HhCvMjD%2FK6rhMT%2BicjWCxjGjUWUTmCwZPGQ0TYEdzDMDnW8b8OLdajJcSqJoF%2FF348czJpkP%2BM0xc33SO2RuXOethxzXa4Mqj3oBdV3xR0LF5V5wLETBpZE%2B8a8pxdiEf1CLBFBhEMc3wozI4VO0M%2BSiAshCgHzEnyxT6W2zafg34%2B6cDyrccNP4P4mZ3L195TGlXBKoIs4CLJyhFk2lALS%2Bmkd%2B4QkEpzz0DgGpBbxZO4%2FQ1jAA%2BKFIvP4t3KlxLxnbG0h5ex0v%2FimBtgzUDJi7g%2F1xiFDQ95F8jHsjYn4Jtw%3D%3D&ref_=ci_mcx_mi&pf_rd_r=ZTJSFGMQTGHGN9708BNN&pf_rd_p=b80cecd8-43c1-4955-af2d-bd2ab15b2bc4&pd_rd_r=ebe103bb-835e-49ce-8aa6-ce9ef7ab90ac&pd_rd_w=pmgYJ&pd_rd_wg=jNCj5

$15 to $20 on Amazon called maybe flashback arrestor or similar, somehow once in a blue moon the flame can jump back into the torch and bad things happen then.

The backfills happen when you run the oxygen cylinder completely empty.

[wombat]

For $25, even if it's cheap Chinese amazon garbage, it's worth it for the slight additional protection.

[DonMuncy]

2 hours ago, JoshK said:

If your next fill comes after the time when the exchange tank comes due for hydro they’re going to stick you with the bill for hydro even though you swapped them a new tank 3 months ago.
 

I have swapped multiple times and have never seen a bill for a hydro test. 

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, JoshK said:

If your next fill comes after the time when the exchange tank comes due for hydro they’re going to stick you with the bill for hydro even though you swapped them a new tank 3 months ago.

Are you sure?

My understanding is that they take care of all hydros. Never heard of being charged.

 I could be wrong; it has happened

[kortopates]

It’s a double edged sword

Hydro on a steel industrial tank is good for 5 or 10 years, I forget which right now.

If you buy a brand new tank it comes with a new hydro from this year. If you go to swap it you’re going to get back some beat ass POS with a total roll of the dice on when it was hydro’d last

If your next fill comes after the time when the exchange tank comes due for hydro they’re going to stick you with the bill for hydro even though you swapped them a new tank 3 months ago.

Over 5 years it costs the price of the tank to own it in rent. Ultimately if I’m using them at a pace where it makes sense to own I can always buy tanks and tuen in my rentals.

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I’ve been swapping big industrial ABO tanks for over 20 years and never have paid for a hydro!
That’s with dealing with multiple gas supply company’s as well - at least 3.
Further, i purchased my tanks through one of the local gas suppliers and over the years i’ve upgraded the size to the biggest one i could handle and the pressure to +P by just paying the difference in price - not buying a new tank and trying to sell my own. In actuality i purchased used tanks, but the gas suppliers maintain the tanks for life as long i keep coming in to swap out for a new full tank with never a fee for other than a fill. It was a long time ago, but the original tanks where around $120 each - no where near the many hundreds some have referred too.
Owning tanks paid for themselves in less than 2 years - almost 20 years ago now.


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[Pinecone]

15 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

I have swapped multiple times and have never seen a bill for a hydro test. 

That is how my local welding supplier works.  Also the small tanks of CO2 and N2 I have from Keene.  I "own" the tank.  But I just swap for a full one when I need to, no hydro testing cost.

[JoshK]

Are you sure?
My understanding is that they take care of all hydros. Never heard of being charged.
 I could be wrong; it has happened

That’s what the local supply place told me when I asked about renting or swapping my own tanks instead of waiting for a full.

I asked specifically what happened if I got a tank back that was coming up on hydro and they said that on rentals they handle it always. If I own the tank when it comes back they will swap it but I pay a hydro fee.


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[JoshK]

I’ve been swapping big industrial ABO tanks for over 20 years and never have paid for a hydro!
That’s with dealing with multiple gas supply company’s as well - at least 3.
Further, i purchased my tanks through one of the local gas suppliers and over the years i’ve upgraded the size to the biggest one i could handle and the pressure to +P by just paying the difference in price - not buying a new tank and trying to sell my own. In actuality i purchased used tanks, but the gas suppliers maintain the tanks for life as long i keep coming in to swap out for a new full tank with never a fee for other than a fill. It was a long time ago, but the original tanks where around $120 each - no where near the many hundreds some have referred too.
Owning tanks paid for themselves in less than 2 years - almost 20 years ago now.


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Maybe 20 years ago they were $120 but then again everything is substantially more expensive now so I don’t doubt it.

If I wasn’t told specifically I was responsible for the hydro I probably would have swallowed the pill and bought the tanks right now. As it stands the rental cost amortizes on a 5-6 year plan vs owning.


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[MikeOH]

9 minutes ago, JoshK said:

That’s what the local supply place told me when I asked about renting or swapping my own tanks instead of waiting for a full.

I asked specifically what happened if I got a tank back that was coming up on hydro and they said that on rentals they handle it always. If I own the tank when it comes back they will swap it but I pay a hydro fee.


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Bummer

[DonMuncy]

I don't know how that would work if they charged you with the testing fee. If you are constantly swapping O2 tanks with them, you might wind up with one that needs a test every time you swapped, just from bad luck. 

[JoshK]

I don't know how that would work if they charged you with the testing fee. If you are constantly swapping O2 tanks with them, you might wind up with one that needs a test every time you swapped, just from bad luck. 

They mitigate that by telling you to rent.


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[kortopates]

They mitigate that by telling you to rent.


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I think you need to talk to another representative or to another supplier. It doesn’t make sense and not how the big suppliers do business.


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[wombat]

2 hours ago, JoshK said:

They mitigate that by telling you to rent.


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I recommend finding a different supplier.   I've been using owner tanks (mostly for argon, but also C02 and some acetylene  and industrial O2) for decades and have never been charged a fee for hydro testing.   It's always the same fee for an exchange regardless of the condition of the tank or recency of it's hydro testing.

 

Who do you use?

Edited September 12, 2023 by wombat

[JoshK]

I recommend finding a different supplier.   I've been using owner tanks (mostly for argon, but also C02 and some acetylene  and industrial O2) for decades and have never been charged a fee for hydro testing.   It's always the same fee for an exchange regardless of the condition of the tank or recency of it's hydro testing.
 
Who do you use?

Keen is the only place I found locally. They have a bunch of locations in this area because they have a plant about 30 miles away as the crow flies.

Wilson products was more than happy to work with me however I wanted but their closest facility is 90 minute each way. The drive time inconvenience is pretty high.

The convenience of Keen is great, they’re 3 min away from my business. They are just being a pain to deal with.


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[Pinecone]

I just called me local welding place (not a chain), they carry 122 and 233 cf tanks.

I would pay a one time fee, and then just swap for full bottles when I need to.  No additional charges for hydro or whatever.

UPDATE

I didn't have the numbers handy, but from my local place.

122 cf - $240 one time fee, $25 to swap for full

244 cf - $325 one time fee,  $30 to swap for full

[JoshK]

I just called me local welding place (not a chain), they carry 122 and 233 cf tanks.
I would pay a one time fee, and then just swap for full bottles when I need to.  No additional charges for hydro or whatever.

That is superb


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[Pinecone]

1 minute ago, JoshK said:

That is superb

They are my supplier for O2 and acetylene for gas welding, and argon for TIG.

I get my CO2/Argon mix for MIG from Keene, as I bought my MIG welder from them.

[wombat]

15 hours ago, JoshK said:

Keen is the only place I found locally. They have a bunch of locations in this area because they have a plant about 30 miles away as the crow flies.

Wilson products was more than happy to work with me however I wanted but their closest facility is 90 minute each way. The drive time inconvenience is pretty high.

The convenience of Keen is great, they’re 3 min away from my business. They are just being a pain to deal with.


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You have an airgas store 6 miles from the airport and they do provide ABO.

Edited September 13, 2023 by wombat

[N201MKTurbo]

I have my own tank and have it refilled instead of swapping it out. I have to take care of hydro testing. If I swapped it out, I wouldn't have to get it hydro tested.

At the gas plant, in the morning when they are hooking all the tanks to the manifold, they check the hydro dates. If they are expired, they haul them over to the area where all the tanks are sent to the hydro tester. They don't do any serial number checking, or ownership checking. They just send X number of cylinders of X size off and expect to get the same number back.

One thing I don't understand is, some of the cylinders are just hydro tested and some are completely overhauled. Stripped, shot peened, painted and a new valve put on. I don't know the criteria for this, or who makes the decision. I will ask next time I'm over there.