TCC Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 … I really am not in a “hurry” to get PPL so part of me would be fine flying another 40-50 hours getting instruction in the plane I plan on flying for a long time. …How many hours have you flown in the past 90 days, since your 20-year break? The Mooney won’t be harder to fly, just different techniques, but you’ll need the complex endorsement to solo and to take the check ride. If you’ve already done the long XC, no big deal. If not, well…… I think the real question I’d be asking is “What DPE will I use?” and what that DPE’s opinion is. You’ll need to bring more systems knowledge for the oral and the DPE will want to be comfortable giving an initial in the plane. That may be the hardest part as some FSDOs are now requiring DPEs have PIC time in make/model to give an initial PPL ride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah20Gflyer Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 I think either option would be fine, but I think how you train may be more important than which plane you choose. If you are able to fly 2 times a week then fly your Mooney, if you are flying once a month then fly the warrior. A Mooney is going to require more from you, so along with having a good instructor you need to being flying regularly so you aren’t regressing. Even for someone like myself with a couple hundred hours in a Mooney I don’t consider flying once a month enough to stay proficient. You don’t want to train in a plane you aren’t staying proficient in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 The first thing to realize is that this is a Mooney site and people here are passionate about their Mooneys. They will tell you that it is the best airplane ever for everything. Heck, someone around here will probably claim that it makes a good crop duster. I have a few thousand hours, a multi-engine ATP, and I'm a CFII that has done quite a bit of primary instruction in Warriors. I've flown Cessnas, Pipers, Beechcrafts, aerobatics, helicopters, warbirds and seaplanes for hire in Alaska and Seattle. None of this is to brag -- it's just to say that I've flown a lot of aircraft. And, I have owned two M20Js. The M20J is optimized for efficient transportation. You can certainly get a PPL in one, but it is not the best trainer. Compared to a Warrior, it is more complex so you have to fiddle with landing gear, cowl flaps and a prop which are distractions to learning basic airmanship. It is much faster, and when you are learning, slower can be better. It is aerodynamically clean and less forgiving if you find yourself high and fast approaching an airport. It's stall break is sharper and it drops a wing abruptly if the ball isn't centered. It is very sensitive to speed on landing and even if you do everything right, it is difficult to get the consistency of landings you can get in a Warrior which is confusing when you are learning. On the other hand you have to realize that your ancient experience in a Warrior is next to worthless. I know because twenty years ago I got a DC-3 type rating for fun. That means that I could fly it to ATP standards and pass a check ride. I never expected to fly a DC-3 again, but fourteen years later I had the opportunity to fly one for a museum. It was essentially like starting over. I was amazed at how little skill remained. I knew what to do, but I couldn't do it very well anymore. So, if I were in your position, I would find a good instructor with some Mooney time and I would get the PPL in your airplane. But, I would expect that it might take longer (maybe quite a bit longer) and be more frustrating -- at least at first. The advantage is that you will know your airplane very well, you won't be afraid of stalls like so many Mooney pilots, and you will fly to a higher level of precision than many new private pilots. Have fun, Skip 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 10 hours ago, Red Leader said: To answer your original question, it is more likely up to the individual and how comfortable they are in both the training aircraft and their new (to them) Mooney. In my case, I purchased my flights school's aircraft to complete my PPL when I had my Grumman AA5. I knew I could not fly the Grumman with the same level of perfection (it was very sensitive) as I could the Cessna and thusly took my checkride in the 152 - I sold that plane immediately thereafter. If I had to do it again with the 152 and my 231, I would still choose the Cessna as it was slower and thus easier to keep from making noticable mistakes that might otherwise bust my test. Funny. I did my PP in an AA-5B Tiger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 10 hours ago, Red Leader said: To answer your original question, it is more likely up to the individual and how comfortable they are in both the training aircraft and their new (to them) Mooney. In my case, I purchased my flights school's aircraft to complete my PPL when I had my Grumman AA5. I knew I could not fly the Grumman with the same level of perfection (it was very sensitive) as I could the Cessna and thusly took my checkride in the 152 - I sold that plane immediately thereafter. If I had to do it again with the 152 and my 231, I would still choose the Cessna as it was slower and thus easier to keep from making noticable mistakes that might otherwise bust my test. Funny. I did my PP in an AA-5B Tiger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayMatt Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 For what it's worth, ( almost nothing) I completed my PPL 1.5 years ago in an archer. My Mooney was delivered the next week. I would personally finish in the Archer because it is easier to pass a test and look good in. After 10 hours with a Mooney owner/ Instructor I still felt like I didn't learn anything from him about how to land a Mooney. Flying one is easy enough but find a highly rated Mooney specific instructor that really understands how to teach Mooney things. I didn't have that and learned mostly on my own. I went up with 2 Mooney owner pilots and neither really taught me how to land. It wasn't until 6 month into owning it that I was like Oh, that's what I should have been doing. It's a dance with a Mooney and you better be the one leading... Any good Pilot can land anything in theory IMO, but even the best pilots still have landings they aren't proud of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Boomer Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 9 hours ago, JayMatt said: It's a dance with a Mooney and you better be the one leading... Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 And so the myth continues, Mooney’s are hard to fly, hard to land…….. Only God himself should teach you to fly one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraskamooneymatt Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 On 2/25/2023 at 10:37 AM, Nebraskamooneymatt said: I took lessons 20 years ago and had 35 hours in a Piper Warrior and had completed all cross countries, night flight, hood time….etc. instructor told me I was ready for checkride…but then had a couple kids and life happened and never finished it. Had a great opportunity to buy a really nice M20J from some friends so I did it….now trying to decide if I should just jump into new plane or go back and to the warrior that the FBO still has for rental. I honestly don’t mind if it takes some extra hours to learn in the Mooney and my instructor says he would finish in the warrior because it would be easier/faster to get PPL wrapped up in that, but thinks we could go the new plane route if I wanted to….Just curious of this groups thoughts. Just an update...I really appreciate the input from all of you. After reading through all the comments and meeting again with my instructor...I'm going to jump back in the warrior and try to fly 2-3 times per week and pound out the private in the next couple of months and then try to find a high time Mooney instructor to get my complex endorsement and instruction time....I plan on working to get my instrument right away after the complex training so I should have plenty of instructor time and opportunity to help me work on landing the M20j which seems to be the worry of a lot of you with experience. Before all the comments I was certainly leaning toward just going forward with the mooney....but several of you brought up points I hadn't considered so thank you all very much. It does seem to be more logical to not jump over a step...may take a little longer to get to flying the Mooney, but lot's of time ahead for that. I really appreciate the help. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) When you get to your instrument lessons and the checkride, don’t forget that you can slow your Mooney down. Not as much as if it was a Warrior, Archer, Skyhawk, etc., but there is no need to fly from one approach to the next at 140-150 kts. The things fly nicely at 100-120 and that will give you time to think and to do tasks that are not second nature. When the tasks become second nature you can go as fast with your Mooney as you like. And let us know when you pass your checkride, have your ticket, and have become an official Mooney pilot. that will be great. Edited February 28, 2023 by jlunseth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrynimmo Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 I flew in 1970s and almost got my license in 2017 I bought aJ. Took PPL lessons in a warrior till I soloed….then I did the 15 hours of transition in the Mooney…took my ppl test in Mooney and failed due to landing proficiency issues…two weeks later passed easily. best purchase to make is the LHS…landing height system…calls our your height so you can grease every landing. Occasional now I turn off the system and what I have found is that it has trained my expectation of height and patience to touch down….it does require a longer distance to touch down and makes it harder to hit a spot… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 It is not that a Mooney is hard to land, it is that is not quite the same as other aircraft. Airspeed control is much more critical. That is why you want a Mooney experienced instructor to transition you. And while you fly the Warrior, work on nailing your speeds in the pattern. If you can fly the Warrior to precise speeds, you will have no problem with landing a Mooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Pinecone said: It is not that a Mooney is hard to land, it is that is not quite the same as other aircraft. "It is not that a Mooney is hard to land, it is that is not quite the same as the aircraft you trained in" fixed it for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 A Mooney has “land o matic” trailing link gear. Try a laminar flow wing and straight oleos like a Comanche, they’re much harder to get consistent smooth landings in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. Peterson Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 On 2/25/2023 at 8:20 PM, Nebraskamooneymatt said: Yes…I have insurance set up…only restriction is I can’t solo until I get 15 hours in Mooney. In that case I would certainly get after that 15 hours. Don’t complicate things with a totally different airplane. You bought the J, fly the J and get comfortable with it now. Why start over twice. BUT, don’t use a CFI with no Mooney experience! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 Congrats Nmm! You came to the right place asking the right questions!!! Sounds like you have two challenges… 1) Go knock the rust off with the Warrior… see how much muscle memory you have of it… If you are an ordinary human being… don’t be surprised about how some of the memory items have faded… Pay extra for a CFI that really knows Warriors…. and Rusty pilots…. It may take something like 65hrs to get the PPL… if all of those memories come back… you can demonstrate your skills pretty quickly… if the skills don’t come back very well… that’s a hurdle to jump over later…. 2) Get started with training on the M20J… call it transition training… no need to wait. check with your insurance company on how many hours are required dual and solo before you are allowed to take passengers…. It may take near ten hours to become comfortable flying the Mooney… (you will be stuck flying with an instructor until you have your PPL, and TT…) 3) there is plenty to be gained by flying two different planes…. You get a better background in flying this way… Flying a warrior well, can make you a better Mooney pilot… Soooo….go fly both… focus on getting the PPL… and hone your skills for flying the M20J, because you can! Keep us up to date with your experience and progress…. After some time off from flying… I did a BFR in a C172… before moving back up to the Mooney. It was better for both of us…. Best regards, -a- 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, carusoam said: 1) Go knock the rust off with the Warrior… see how much muscle memory you have of it…If 2) Get started with training on the M20J… call it transition training… no need to wait. ⬆️⬆️⬆️ + 1 Edited March 1, 2023 by Andy95W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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