Shelf life

[mooneydrmr]

Your feedback on training in our own plane has convinced me to beat up a trainer for awhile before thrashing a Mooney.  (Especially one I have paid for).  Thank you.  This brings me to another question for you; while discussing planes with my brother in law/pilot/soon to be instructor, he warned against older planes saying that older planes,(sixties specifically) were designed and built to last about twenty-five years, and often require cost-prohibitive levels of maintenance to remain safe/reliable.  Thoughts?  Thank you in advance.

[Jeff_S]

Any older plane will require diligent inspection to make sure maintenance issues haven't gone undetected. Specifically, corrosion is what will really drive repair/maintenance costs through the roof. That includes corrosion to the airframe parts, as well as to the engine.

But the good thing about a sixties-era plane, or pretty much any plane after, is that if you have a clean airframe and a solid performing engine, there are still parts available for practically anything else you may need. I have a friend who is flying a 1964 C172 around the country on business. His biggest expense was when he finally had the engine overhauled two years ago. Other than that, he just spends "fun money" updating it as he feels like it.

When I was buying my first plane, a wizened aviation professional told me to look for just two things: the metal inside the wings (assuming metal airplane of course) should be "beer-can shiny" and the engine should be checked for solid operations. Anything else can be replaced or repaired at reasonable expense.

[Parker_Woodruff]

If the plane has been kept up with, it shouldn't be a problem at all.  Mooneys are a stout airframe.  A good prepurchase inspection where the seller pays for any airworthiness squawks should uncover any lax maintenance habits they've had.

I still encourage anyone to prioritize and first find the nicest, best maintained airframe he or she can find (by all means an IFR platform), then consider installed equipment.

Don't be afraid of high total time on a Mooney either, especially if it's been flown a lot recently and maintained with a reputable shop.

[John Pleisse]

Many people have notions of time. They won't buy a '66 vintage aircraft, but don't have a problem with a 1981 aircraft. What's the difference? Sure 15 years, but relative to 2012? The '81 is still a 32 year old plane.

I always put airframe ahead of all else, accepting expense to bring an engine and systems up to snuff. I have said this before: High time airframe? Irreversable. Gear Up? Irreversable. Foreign resgistry? Irreversable. Major damage history? Irreversable. Lost logs? Irreversable (usually). Financially, this may be a bit much, but when I bought my plane years ago, this one was a once every 5 years plane. http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20J-201/1984-MOONEY-M20J-201/1226951.htm? They just reduced it 10 grand....put a new engine it it and you will likely have a great plane. 1 owner, MSC maintained, hangar kept.

People on this thread have bought high time airframes or gear up planes or foreign registry planes. They balanced several factors in their decision to purchase.

The older you buy, the more willing you should be to wallk away from an opportunity. Stay away from mechanics who kick the tires, grab their belt loops, hike up their pants and say....."yeah.... these airframes will last forvever". They won't.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: JimR

 

OK, I'm curious.  I am the one with the high time airframe on this thread at something over 10,000 hours.  Jeff and Parker, which of you has gear up or foreign registry history?  How are these factors any less irreversable than airframe age and why does it matter?

Jim

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: JimR

Jim

[fantom]

Older planes, like older women, can be most rewarding even if they require special handling. Younger ones are great to look at and dream about, but will cost you much more.

[pjsny78]

Quote: fantom

Older planes, like older women, can be most rewarding even if they require special handling. Younger ones are great to look at and dream about, but will cost you much more.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: JimR

Since I don't base purchasing decisions for depreciating assets on their eventual resale value, the irreversables that you mention are irrelevant to me.  All that matters is condition and cost.

Jim

[Hank]

Why is foreign registration a negative? Other than needing to paint new numbers on? But if it's in the past, why would it matter???

[John Pleisse]

Quote: Hank

Why is foreign registration a negative? Other than needing to paint new numbers on? But if it's in the past, why would it matter???

[KSMooniac]

The most important consideration for any Mooney airframe is the storage and usage history, as well as how it was maintained.  As mentioned above, there can be some really crappy 10-20 year old planes, and some very nice 45 year old planes... it all depends.  ;-)  There can be a 10,000 hour plane that has flown regularly and been maintained that is in better shape than a 2000 hour plane with original gear biscuits, engine mounts, interior, radios, fuel tanks, rod ends, etc.  Just about everything can be fixed or upgraded on any Mooney, except for rampant corrosion where it might not be economically feasible to fix.  Mooneys do NOT have a fatigue problem identified anywhere on the airframe, so I'm not scared of 10,000 hour airframes assuming they have been maintained.

Figure your budget and target airplane, along with a list of "must-haves" vs. "wants" and assign a priority and dollar value to each of those, and then go shopping!  My priority list in descending order is airframe condition, panel/avionics/autopilot, engine time/condition/history, fuel tank status, paint, windows, interior.

[mooneydrmr]

Thank you again gentlemen.  Great information here.  As you can see, I am on a huge learning curve, I am about to have a nervouse breakdown just trying to figure all the lingo I.E. ttsn, ttsmoh,  ect ect lol.  My wife and brother-in law are familiar with this stuff as their father used to collect private aircraft, and all the boys in the family are pilots; (5 give or take?).  I however am so blank on it all that I don't really have the verbage to express it; but I am having fun learning.  Again, thank you for all the info it is very helpful to a newbie.

[RJBrown]

I ride an old 1980 Suzuki GS1100LS. Sitting around was the 1982 Kawasaki 750LTD my son rode when he was young. I wanted my wife to learn to ride. The 750 intimidated her, she is just 110 pounds of sweet girl you know. We looked at newer smaller bikes. She perked up at the Honda 250 Rebel. She thought I should buy her one. Found a used one with only 1000 or so miles on it. Instead of buying it we put her in a motorcycle training course where they supplied the Rebels. Point is by the time she took the course and felt comfortable on a bike that 250 was way too small even for her. That step up to the 750 was not near as intimidating as before.

Moral of my story is: Learn how to fly, beat the crap out of someone else's 172. Once you have your ticket buy the plane you plan to keep. Then you can treat her like the lady she is.