flysolow Posted November 2, 2022 Report Posted November 2, 2022 Hello all, Has anyone installed the Garmin GI-260 AOA Indication System, or similar systems from other brands in their Mooney? If so, How do you like it? Is there a brand/system you prefer? Can you share pictures of the installation? Can you share any possible downsides from installing an AOA system? Quote
PeteMc Posted November 2, 2022 Report Posted November 2, 2022 I still just haven't gotten around to it, but was going to add it to my Aspen. I've heard a lot of mixed stories out there if it's worth it or not. But the "do it" side seems to be winning. I've read a few FAA articles where they're considering it as a required item (I'm assuming in new planes). Quote
KSMooniac Posted November 2, 2022 Report Posted November 2, 2022 I have the Alpha Systems Eagle model, with the display mounted forward on my glareshield. I love it, and would install it again on another airplane. It would be worthless in the panel, IMO, so I'm a strong proponent of putting it in your field of view when looking outside. Quote
EarthboundMisfit Posted November 3, 2022 Report Posted November 3, 2022 (edited) We have an Alpha Systems AOA. 1. Never use it 2. Nope. 3. 4. Calibration. Control wheel/column position is an excellent AoA indicator. Yeager wasn't a fan of them either: Edited November 4, 2022 by EarthboundMisfit Add photos. Quote
carusoam Posted November 3, 2022 Report Posted November 3, 2022 Welcome aboard Flyso! Kind of a flaps/no flaps kind of discussion… 1) AOAi(s) are a great tool for many people… i is for indicator, (s) is for plural…. 2) If your WnB calculations are always accurate, and your memory skills support your simple math skills… the AOAi would be a bit of redundancy…. 3) If you prefer to skip the detailed WnB as it changes during the flight… The AOAi, properly used, skips all the math and just delivers the answer… 4) The AOAi answers the question… At Exactly what speed should I be approaching the runway to land nicely at… if my weight is exactly unknown to me right now. 5) I like examples of how Mr. Yeager flies a plane… I know I wasn’t born with, or acquired his talents…. I should get an AOAi… 6) Mr. Yeager probably didn’t have an LHS either… +1 for adding the Landing height system as well… 7) It comes down to excess cash…. If you have excess cash… spend it on jewelry for your Mooney… The AOAi is an excellent piece of jewelry that is functional as well… 8) If you want to see an AOAi in action… watch any of @201er ‘s videos… He has a tendency of landing on the center line all the time…. And when you listen for the tire scrub noises, the mains touch down a second before the nose does… Other aural clues that indicate the value… of the AOAi… inside the cabin, the stall horn always comes on briefly, just prior to touch down… 9) If you don’t always hear buzz, chirp, chirp when you land… or your turn off the runway is longer than you’d like…. Your speed control probably needs some help… 10) 201er’s AOAi is ancient analog technology… but delivers the details… 11) Modern technology… get the display up where your eyes are already looking… better than scanning instruments on final approach… 12) Mounting and calibrating are important parts of the success of any device… follow the instructions. 13) There are several reviews around here for every AOAi device ever installed in a Mooney… use the search by name… 14) Hmmmm… how much would I have to spend to be able to fly like Mr. Yeager…….? I’d probably need a few devices to even come close…. Probably a few more hours of training every week…. Go AOAi… it is a support instrument that improves your landing skills… More importantly, it calculates how close you are to stall speed, when the bank angle is not matching your memorized chart values… Some AOAi(s) have provisions for multiple flap positions… others are only calibrated for one flap position… Choose your weapons wisely! Go MS! PP thoughts only, not a CFI… Best regards, -a- Quote
Pinecone Posted November 3, 2022 Report Posted November 3, 2022 I have the AOA enabled in the Aspen 1000 (it was that way when I bought it). I have NO idea how/if it works. I just check airspeed. I would like to install Alpha system with indicator on top of the glare shield. Flew with AOA in T-38 and A-10 and really liked it 1 Quote
flysolow Posted November 9, 2022 Author Report Posted November 9, 2022 On 11/2/2022 at 4:24 PM, KSMooniac said: I have the Alpha Systems Eagle model, with the display mounted forward on my glareshield. I love it, and would install it again on another airplane. It would be worthless in the panel, IMO, so I'm a strong proponent of putting it in your field of view when looking outside. Thank you KSMooniac, I’ve heard the same thing. A friend has installed several units in his aircrafts and say they are a must. The glareshield mounted units seem to be the best as well. The G500/600 TXi’s don’t display the AOA so the glareshield unit seems to fit the need. Thank you for your input! Quote
flysolow Posted November 9, 2022 Author Report Posted November 9, 2022 On 11/2/2022 at 7:55 PM, EarthboundMisfit said: We have an Alpha Systems AOA. 1. Never use it 2. Nope. 3. 4. Calibration. Control wheel/column position is an excellent AoA indicator. Yeager wasn't a fan of them either: Thank you EarthboundMisfit, I really appreciate the pictures. We are wondering about installing the Garmin unit. I’m curious about the space required in the wing. It looks like your system uses the entire inspection panel. I’ve also heard a few things about the calibration procedures being difficult with a GFC500 autopilot. More things to look into! Thank you for your reply! 1 Quote
flysolow Posted November 9, 2022 Author Report Posted November 9, 2022 On 11/3/2022 at 3:07 AM, Pinecone said: I have the AOA enabled in the Aspen 1000 (it was that way when I bought it). I have NO idea how/if it works. I just check airspeed. I would like to install Alpha system with indicator on top of the glare shield. Flew with AOA in T-38 and A-10 and really liked it Thanks Pinecone, I have quite a few customers and friends who have installed, and like them. They all say they help. It is interesting to hear input from owners of different makes of aircraft. I can only imagine flying a T-38 and A-10! Quote
flysolow Posted November 9, 2022 Author Report Posted November 9, 2022 On 11/2/2022 at 8:41 PM, carusoam said: Welcome aboard Flyso! Kind of a flaps/no flaps kind of discussion… 1) AOAi(s) are a great tool for many people… i is for indicator, (s) is for plural…. 2) If your WnB calculations are always accurate, and your memory skills support your simple math skills… the AOAi would be a bit of redundancy…. 3) If you prefer to skip the detailed WnB as it changes during the flight… The AOAi, properly used, skips all the math and just delivers the answer… 4) The AOAi answers the question… At Exactly what speed should I be approaching the runway to land nicely at… if my weight is exactly unknown to me right now. 5) I like examples of how Mr. Yeager flies a plane… I know I wasn’t born with, or acquired his talents…. I should get an AOAi… 6) Mr. Yeager probably didn’t have an LHS either… +1 for adding the Landing height system as well… 7) It comes down to excess cash…. If you have excess cash… spend it on jewelry for your Mooney… The AOAi is an excellent piece of jewelry that is functional as well… 8) If you want to see an AOAi in action… watch any of @201er ‘s videos… He has a tendency of landing on the center line all the time…. And when you listen for the tire scrub noises, the mains touch down a second before the nose does… Other aural clues that indicate the value… of the AOAi… inside the cabin, the stall horn always comes on briefly, just prior to touch down… 9) If you don’t always hear buzz, chirp, chirp when you land… or your turn off the runway is longer than you’d like…. Your speed control probably needs some help… 10) 201er’s AOAi is ancient analog technology… but delivers the details… 11) Modern technology… get the display up where your eyes are already looking… better than scanning instruments on final approach… 12) Mounting and calibrating are important parts of the success of any device… follow the instructions. 13) There are several reviews around here for every AOAi device ever installed in a Mooney… use the search by name… 14) Hmmmm… how much would I have to spend to be able to fly like Mr. Yeager…….? I’d probably need a few devices to even come close…. Probably a few more hours of training every week…. Go AOAi… it is a support instrument that improves your landing skills… More importantly, it calculates how close you are to stall speed, when the bank angle is not matching your memorized chart values… Some AOAi(s) have provisions for multiple flap positions… others are only calibrated for one flap position… Choose your weapons wisely! Go MS! PP thoughts only, not a CFI… Best regards, -a- Thank you Carusoam! Great points on everything! We are doing our homework for a customer who has been looking into the AOA systems. The LHS is great! We’ve installed many of them! I think, at the end of the day, jewelry for the aircraft can never hurt. Especially if they’re tools that can be used. Installing these devices in many different makes and models can be difficult as the wings and inspection plates are all different. You are totally right about having the unit mounted in your line of sight. Thank you very much for your response, it is greatly appreciated 1 Quote
kortopates Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 Thank you KSMooniac, I’ve heard the same thing. A friend has installed several units in his aircrafts and say they are a must. The glareshield mounted units seem to be the best as well. The G500/600 TXi’s don’t display the AOA so the glareshield unit seems to fit the need. Thank you for your input!I also have the Alpha system with the HUD display on the glare-shield with heated pitot - actually dual HUD’s because i fly from the right and my wife flies from the left.Even if my G500 Txi displayed it, it wouldn’t be useful on the panel. Agree with all that @KSMooniac said.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
carusoam Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 The Alpha system seems to have the most high end, well thought out, and engineered solution… The HUD can be folded down out of the way… Other systems display on the instrument panel… a bit of a challenge to focus the eyes on and look out the windshield at the same time… Some lower cost systems have the display mounted on the center tube… small LEDs… but, may not have a heated vane to work in wintery weather… Kind of a list of things to look for… Best regards, -a- Quote
PT20J Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 I had the Aspen AOA. I never could get it calibrated to indicate properly. it was also pretty useless down on the panel. I didn’t install the Garmin AOA when I put in the G3X because the Mooney windshield is already pretty small and I didn’t want to install the rather large Garmin display to further block my view. The Garmin unit uses a special second pitot tube mounted in an inspection cover. There should be no interaction between the AOA and the GFC 500. Quote
rbp Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 12 hours ago, kortopates said: Even if my G500 Txi displayed it, it wouldn’t be useful on the panel. AOS is right next to the IAS tape on my G3X. so if you're looking at the airspeed, you'll also see the AOA Quote
flysolow Posted November 9, 2022 Author Report Posted November 9, 2022 44 minutes ago, PT20J said: I had the Aspen AOA. I never could get it calibrated to indicate properly. it was also pretty useless down on the panel. I didn’t install the Garmin AOA when I put in the G3X because the Mooney windshield is already pretty small and I didn’t want to install the rather large Garmin display to further block my view. The Garmin unit uses a special second pitot tube mounted in an inspection cover. There should be no interaction between the AOA and the GFC 500. Thanks PT20J! it seems the calibration is a bit tricky. Though the AOA does not interface to the GFC, some of the safety features in the GFC make the calibration a bit difficult. Do you have the Garmin AOA probe under the wing? Quote
flysolow Posted November 9, 2022 Author Report Posted November 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, rbp said: AOS is right next to the IAS tape on my G3X. so if you're looking at the airspeed, you'll also see the AOA Hi RBP, Are you running the Garmin probe under the wing? Quote
KSMooniac Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 I'll add my thoughts on heated vs. un-heated AOA probe. I went un-heated because I don't have TKS on my J. If you get into an icing situation, your wing can change shape enough to alter the stalling AOA, so your ice-free AOA probe will potentially give you WRONG data, and that is dangerous. My own procedure now if I were to pick up ice and land with it would be to pull the AOA breaker and just fly a faster approach, same as I would have before without AOA. If you have a TKS bird, then by all means go for the heated option! 1 Quote
PT20J Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, flysolow said: Thanks PT20J! it seems the calibration is a bit tricky. Though the AOA does not interface to the GFC, some of the safety features in the GFC make the calibration a bit difficult. Do you have the Garmin AOA probe under the wing? I don’t have the Garmin AOA, but I did look at the installation requirements for the probe when I was considering it. Just turn off ESP on the GFC 500 during calibration and it won’t interfere. I like to fool around doing Chandelles, wing overs, steep turn and such and find ESP annoying so I keep it turned off. It’s on my checklist to turn it on if flying IFR. Skip Quote
rbp Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 38 minutes ago, flysolow said: Hi RBP, Are you running the Garmin probe under the wing? yes Quote
flysolow Posted November 9, 2022 Author Report Posted November 9, 2022 2 hours ago, rbp said: yes Amazing! Can you shoot me a picture of the probe under the wing? Quote
rbp Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 16 minutes ago, flysolow said: Amazing! Can you shoot me a picture of the probe under the wing? Quote
flysolow Posted November 9, 2022 Author Report Posted November 9, 2022 13 minutes ago, rbp said: Thank you! Was this mounted in an inspection plate or the wing? Quote
rbp Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 15 minutes ago, flysolow said: Thank you! Was this mounted in an inspection plate or the wing? inspection plate read the install instructions. it has to be mounted in a certain spot Quote
kortopates Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 3 hours ago, rbp said: AOS is right next to the IAS tape on my G3X. so if you're looking at the airspeed, you'll also see the AOA Your making the point on why the panel location is so poor. One of main benefits of the AOA indicator is that its in your field of view looking out the window at the runway and traffic so that you don't have to look at the panel. The second big benefit is its indications and not affected by changes in weight and bank unlike IAS. But of course having it on the panel is better than not having one, yet I wouldn't have gone to trouble/expense to install it without the indicator on the glareshield. You will still benefit from the alarm though of getting too slow, such as when banking on base to final, if your Garmin AOA provides that audio input like the Alpha. 2 Quote
amillet Posted November 9, 2022 Report Posted November 9, 2022 What has to be disconnected to remove thr glare shield? Quote
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