Aveo Engineering Rocker Switches

[AndyFromCB]

If you're updating your panel and your avionics shop says OK and they have carte blanche with their local FSDO, which most of them do because the FSODs are mostly concerned with part 121 and 135, you can do what ever you want hence a lot of Garmin G500 with RCA 2600 out there. Not STCd, nobody cares how you want to kill yourself in your little "dinky" airplane. And apparently I've been trying hard in my Bravo to no avail.

I still think the transfer case on my benz G500 is more complex that all the airplanes I've ever flown put together. It's a work of art unlike the TIO540AF1B I fly behind which closelly resembled a tractor engine from 1930's.

[PTK]

Quote: astelmaszek

Mooney Company could not design a blender if they were given a billion dollars from federal government. 

[rdav]

These switches are definitely modern looking .. I like that!

 

Some thoughts .. it doesn't look as though the rocking action is more than 20-30 degrees.  I would want to know how easy is it to tell at a glance whether a switch is in the on or off position?  Do they rely on the LED for that indication?  If so, is the LED readable in direct sunlight?  How much force do you need to flip the switch.  Will an accidental brush against the switch in turbulence toggle it?  What happens when they are tested on a vibe table?  Do they tend to flip to the on position when shaken due to more mass on one side of the toggle, or worse flip back and forth between on/off positions when there is a hard gust?  The company obviously intended that they be used in an aircraft.  If they really are designed well then the company would have data for these questions.  I would contact the company and ask for more information.  What do they mean by "Meets or Exceeds All FAA & EASA Requirements".  Which requirements .. there are several different ones depending on the intended purpose of the switch.  Were they designed with the experimental market in mind, or part 21 aircraft, or part 25 aircraft, or rotorcraft?  What aircraft have they been successfully used on in the past? 

 

Better yet, do they have a demonstrator that you can take a ride in so you can judge the useability of the switches in actual flight conditions.  Any excuse for a free ride

[tony]

Ray, going back to your original question, I think you're better off staying with the original Klixon switches. It’s a lot less hassle for no improvement in functionality. If you do decide to deviate from the cert basis, you'll need to replace the Klixon switch with the same functionality (a circuit breaker and a switch).  You will want the circuit breaker to be close to that buss bar under there so as it provides the same fire protection you have now.  Most of the switches are 10 amp beakers, I think the landing light is a 20, and the position lights have a 5.  Circuit breakers are sized for the size wire it’s protecting, not the load.  I’ve had to replace a few those switches already.  They go bad mostly from not being used.  The metal insides corrodes, generates a high resistance contact, which generates heat which causes the breaker to trip.  Mike’s right, they aren’t cheap.  TSO is not required (we have had this argument before on here) but it makes the approval process go easier.  Whatever you decide just have your mechanic throw it all on a 337 before you start the work and wait for OK city to approve it.     

Byron astelmaszek is right.  Aircraft manufactures’ don’t manufacture hardly anything.  They buy parts from suppliers (most stuff is not TSO’d) and put their part numbers on it.  Do you really think all those gauges you stare at have a TSO?  That forces the users to come back to the OEM for maintenance.  The OEM typically adds their part number to an item and a 15 to 20 percent markup.  OEMs have the type data, which they fiercely protect because OEMs don’t make money from selling airplanes, they make money selling parts. 

 

[jetdriven]

Astelmazek:

I know Mooney does not make their own switches.  If you can get them from their original source or find a legal replacement, by all means. Often they won't sell it to you.   And, yes I know people that do tons of research to find out how to repair something for 50$ instead of 2500$.  Is it legal to repair your own voltage regulator? Is it legal for you to install soft serve ice cream parts in the pump of your TKS?  Certified aircraft, for the most part, have to use aircraft grade parts. The manufacturer can do whatever they want as the components are licensed as part of the airplane. But when it comes to replacing things, its not so easy.

The FAA released AC 23-27 to give guidance on replacing obsolete parts in aircraft.  If it can be determined to be a "standard part" such as a MIL spec,  SAE specification, TSO, PMA, or some other data establishing the suitability of the part, you can use it.  You cant just go down to Auto Zone and buy a lighted rocker switch to replace your master.  Im not saying I like it, but it is the way it is.

Quote: astelmaszek

jetdrivven,

There is nothing I can do to make you less of Mooney Company fanatic but I guarantee you they do not make their own switches, or voltage regulators or oxygen bottles. All they do is change the part number to start with a 5 or 9. For last 30 years, Mooney Company could not design a blender if they were given a billion dollars from federal government. For the life of me, I do not understand this level of bullshit fanatisism with Mooney or FAA. If your avionics shop followed all the regulations, they could not installl a simple upgraded COM becuase wire is not TSOd.

Bravo voltage regulators are Zeffronics R25400 in a custome encosure.

All switches on Bravo panel are Honeywell switches with custom engrarving.

All 115 cu ft oxygen bottles are done by a Boeing subcontractor, they are also used on a 737.

If you really want to start a war, I'll go back to my spreadsheets and find the exact part numbers. Been there, done that, over my dead body I am paying Mooney $1500 for a voltage regulator if I can just snap a R25400 from Texas for 250 bucks and replace the board.

[Guest]

The Aveo switches are very a nice alternative for the experimental market, I have been in the process deciding wether to go with these particular switches or the Vertical Power system for my -7. As far as quality they are high end and also very readable in direct sunlight, just as easy to read as a Ray Allen trim indicator in a bubble canopy. 

[DaV8or]

Quote: astelmaszek

If you're updating your panel and your avionics shop says OK and they have carte blanche with their local FSDO, which most of them do because the FSODs are mostly concerned with part 121 and 135, you can do what ever you want hence a lot of Garmin G500 with RCA 2600 out there.

[aviatoreb]

Quote: pjsny78

You mean like the switches in my Bravo aka $9.99 cents available from anywhere on the planet or $250.00 from Mooney Company. It's a an effing switch...Yes, I'm sure my Honeywell switch is current limiting, protects me from witches, etc. Yes, I have the part numbers, 15 from Honeywell or 250 from Mooney Company. Same with the voltage regulators....

[N601RX]

Most switches and CB's used in aircraft will have MS number stamped on them.

[Cruiser]

I agree that the FAA is in regulation overload. Mostly from self preservation. Why it takes manufacturers years and millions of dollars to get part/STC approval is insane and we pay for it in product prices plus the technology becomes obsolete almost as quick as it is release.

HOWEVER, I also agree that some standardization is needed. I hear the "its my life and if I want to......" argument. This is fine just don't ever put your owner modified aircraft on the market for some unsuspecting buyer to purchase and get stuck with a bunch of uncertified parts that the FAA can ground in an ramp check.

I hear this all to often these days. If I am ever in the market to purchase again I will definitely ask the pilot/owner if there are any non certified parts or unapproved work done on the plane. That answer will effect the selling price.

[jetdriven]

You can always buy an RV-8

[AndyFromCB]

It is a reality, I have one sitting in my basement right now. I even run it in my kitchen to make sure it puts out equivalent fluid volume. I found out about on beechtalk. I really wish the Mooney crew would stop treating their airplanes like sacred cows and that we would all move towards the CSOb and Beechtalk type forum where people actually find parts numbers and/or equivalent parts and install them on their airplanes. Straight from Germany.

Now I learnt something about TKS to be a lesson for all. Being I own 2 1/4 airplanes right now with an access to my business partner's IV-P turboprop, I haven't flow the Bravo in 45 days. It was all covered in hangar dust being we haven't had a winter in a while and everything is dusty. TKS fluid and dust do no MIX. Between the thick fluid and dust on the windshield and boundary effect, I ended up having to land looking out of my side window. I wasn't it icing or even IMC, just decided to prime the system while out screwing around on Sunday. TKS fluid and dust make for a very opaque windshield. A bottle of windex in my flight bag from now on.

It was a funny ATC call to make. Took a while to explain. 

Here is the switches link, identical, part for part as the landing light switch I got a 250 dollar quote for from MAC or BMAC, with B standing for Tango Uniform,  as I like to call them:

ttp://www.engravers.net/aircraft/rocker_switches.htm

For all I care, MAC needs to go fully Tango Uniform, release their drawings and part numbers into public domain (or you can just look them up on brazilian FAA as they release all type certificate data) and let other parties, actually interested in making money get in the business.

BTW, mooney is not the only company to soon be replaced, thank budda or whatever the indian gods are:

http://www.theaussieaviator.net/threads/kit-plane-technique-may-benefit-cessna.1776/

Apparently Cessna is just learning what CNC is ;-)

"The idea is not a new one. The process was used in the construction of the Eiffel Tower, Willford said." would be effing funny if not so sad

[jwilkins]

Quote: astelmaszek

"For all I care, MAC needs to go fully Tango Uniform, release their drawings and part numbers into public domain (or you can just look them up on brazilian FAA as they release all type certificate data) and let other parties, actually interested in making money get in the business."