Who do you vote for?

[201er]

Hey Brett, shouldn't you be all for Rick Santorum? He's from around your neck of the woods isn't he?

[bnicolette]

Quote: 201er

Hey Brett, shouldn't you be all for Rick Santorum? He's from around your neck of the woods isn't he?

[201er]

Cool! Been there a couple years ago, it's really nice. I have a friend that lives there but Mooney just don't cut it when it's that kinda distance! Looks like I'm heading to Charleston SC for the weekend. I'll say hi to Rick for you.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: rob

Being founded by Christians (excluding Jefferson) and being a Christian nation are two totally different things. Surely you see that? In your haste to defend the second amendment, have you forgotten the importance of the very first sentence of the first?

[bnicolette]

Yes John that would have been interesting. They weren't onboard at the same time though.  Sorry, i guess i didnt word that the best.  We were bringing them to my old bosses resort and then did some trips on the "comp" for them.  Gambling stuff for PA.  Also flew Arlen Spector a bunch back then. 

[PTK]

My grandfather used to say never get into deep discussions about politics and religion. It will always start an argument.

Having said that the fact is our nation was founded on Christian principles by Christians. What evolved in the 200+ years to today is that we allowed immigrants to come in from every corner of the world and bring with them their baggage. We extended to them, naturally, our precious freedoms but some of them took and continue to take advantage of them. Gone are the days when immigrants would knock on our door and ask "may I come in please? I only want an opportunity to work hard and raise my family" And when allowed in they would say "thank you for the opportunity." They worked hard, respected our Law and raised their kids accordingly. In contrast today they don't even knock! They barge right in with the attitude "it's mine, you owe me, I will take it and I don't have to work for it!" The question is to what extent have we created this monster and when are we going to wake up! When are we going to realize that this whole notion of political correctness and being afraid of offending this group or the other is pure, unadulterated BS! It's backwards. We have forgotten and are taking for granted our own Country!

Well then...how about a different topic where we all agree. Aha!... Aeroshell 15W50?

[AlexR]

We are a nation founded on Christian principals with provisions for separation of church and state and protections for those who practice other faiths.  That is not a Christian state.   Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state.  I don't think its fair to lump us in with them...at least not yet. 

[PTK]

Quote: AlexR

We are a nation founded on Christian principals with provisions for separation of church and state and protections for those who practice other faiths.  That is not a Christian state.   Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state.  I don't think its fair to lump us in with them...at least not yet. 

[AlexR]

There is a subtle difference between the terms nation and state.   We are a state with no official religion and protections for all faiths, that was established initially by a Christian nation.  We are now a state with many nations...which has its positives and negatives.   The founders clearly were religious men, but they were also clearly in favor of separation of church and state.  Many of them were also masons and men of sience who believed in reconciling science and faith (look up the meaning of G in the mason seal)...in my humble opinion, the majority of the founders would not agree with intelligent design or that the world is 3000 years old when there is overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary.  I do agree with your notion that the bill of rights gives us freedom OF religion, not FROM freedom.  Everyone, politicians included, should be allowed to express their religious believes and display religious symbols...but as a tax payer...I dont want to pay for a government Christmas tree at the Whitehouse as much as I don't want to pay for a Ramadan/EID banquet at the Department of Agriculture.

[PTK]

This is a Christian nation with some other religions. The overwhelming majority of the population, ~80% are Christians. Therefore given that Christmas and Easter are the principal determining holidays of Christianity, celebrating the birth, death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, I do expect a Christmas tree at the White House every year as I expect to hear "Merry Christmas" and "Christ is Risen" accordingly for example. Not a watered down "happy holidays." If I was living in a moslem country I would expect to hear "Happy Ramadan" or in a judaic society "Happy Hanukkah" or in China "Happy Vesak", etc etc. Again what are we afraid of??

[rob]

This will be my last post on the subject.

PK: We are afraid of tyranny. We are afraid of infringing on the most important document in the United States, the Consitution, which forbids the government sponsorship of any religion, even that of the majority. Our citizens are free to celebrate and practice any faith the choose, it is only our government who is restricted. As I mentioned earlier, the rights of the minority are important in the USA. This is a part of what makes this nation great. We don't believe that the majority has the right to stampede the minority and we hold dear the rights of all citizens.

AlexR mentioned Freedom FROM religion, but said he does not feel that we are granted that freedom. Freedom FROM religion is inherent in freedom OF religion. That is why taxpayers don't pay for a Christmas Tree or any other religious symbolism. Our government, as an institution, is free FROM religion. Our governors, as persons and citizens, are free to practice openly any religion they choose.

The United States is the first country in the world without an official religion. This should be a point of pride for all Americans of all faiths. It is what set us apart, and what has made us a model. Anyone who believes that simply being a nation who is majority Christian makes a nation a Christian nation only need read article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli. For those not familiar, the treaty was unanimously passed through the Senate in 1979 and signed by President Adams. Article 11 reads:

• 
  
• As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.