Messing Around

[201er]

What kinda stuff can/have you done in a Mooney for messing with passengers (especially the kind that think they're not scared of anything)?

In gliders I've done wing overs, dives, stalls, spins, over the top 0 gs, loops, and inverted flight. Haven't messed about in the Mooney cause I don't know how much it can safely take and I don't know how to deal with the prop in these conditions. I'm worried about something like a wing over or dive that it may overspeed the prop at some point. So I'm not sure if the prop should be full forward to slow the dive or reduced back to windmill, etc.

Gimme some ideas besides really steep turns of stuff I can do?

[jetdriven]

well, legally, without an acrobatic airworthiness certificate and a parachute for each occupant, you can't (generally) except 60 degrees of bank or 30 degrees of pitch unless operated as a CFI giving spin training to a CFI applicant, and even then only if it is aproved for spins.  The qualifier even here is it must be a "nomral maneuver" So in other words, not much.

Now as far as what the airplane can "take", the answer is a lot. The prop governor should maintain set RPM throughout the legal airspeed envelope.  Book does say to carefully advance the prop lever at high airspeeds because it can momentary overspeed. The point you get into trouble is the fact the airframe is so clean you can very easily blow right though the redline airspeed and then overstress the airframe, or hit the ground.  Mess about in a Citabria or an A150.

 

 

[bd32322]

i want to try a legal low pass at full speed over a long runway - get a low approach clearance from tower or something.

the sensation of speed must be superb

[DaV8or]

Just be advised that if you ever get your Mooney into a fully developed spin, we will most likely be reading about you in the news. Spinning Mooneys is a really, really bad idea. I personally don't want to scare my PAX, or myself in my plane. Famous last words in aviation. "Hey, watch this!"

Please be careful out there.

[201er]

I'm not gonna spin a Mooney. But there's gotta be something you can do? This kinda stuff is so much easier in a glider!

[N33GG]

Quote: jetdriven

well, legally, without an acrobatic airworthiness certificate and a parachute for each occupant, you can't (generally) except 60 degrees of bank or 30 degrees of pitch unless operated as a CFI giving spin training to a CFI applicant, and even then only if it is aproved for spins.  The qualifier even here is it must be a "nomral maneuver" So in other words, not much.

 

[gregwatts]

Quote: N6719N

Not to be picky, but I think all you can do legally is 29 degrees of pitch and 59 degrees of bank.

[oldn0tded]

Quote: DaV8or

Just be advised that if you ever get your Mooney into a fully developed spin, we will most likely be reading about you in the news. Spinning Mooneys is a really, really bad idea. I personally don't want to scare my PAX, or myself in my plane. Famous last words in aviation. "Hey, watch this!"

Please be careful out there.

[scottfromiowa]

Anyone ever done a hammerhead in a Mooney?  I did (as passenger) with instructor in a 150.  Fun for three times...then let stomach settle...

[Becca]

Quote: 201er

What kinda stuff can/have you done in a Mooney for messing with passengers (especially the kind that think they're not scared of anything)?

In gliders I've done wing overs, dives, stalls, spins, over the top 0 gs, loops, and inverted flight. Haven't messed about in the Mooney cause I don't know how much it can safely take and I don't know how to deal with the prop in these conditions. I'm worried about something like a wing over or dive that it may overspeed the prop at some point. So I'm not sure if the prop should be full forward to slow the dive or reduced back to windmill, etc.

Gimme some ideas besides really steep turns of stuff I can do?

[201er]

Pull up, slow to minimum speed, push forward? Kinda like this?

[scottfromiowa]

Poor girl...Really poor job by pilot of knowing what was happening in the plane.  We just pulled up in cruise and when close to stall pused full rudder, dove, recovered airspeed pulled up to level flight...and repeat.  Gyro definitely tumbled.  Man, I would NOT want to destroy my soon to be new header with puke...Good Grief...

[richardheitzman]

Hey lets stop this right now. 201er that type of attitude will get you killed. Please do not attempt any type of acrobatic flying in a Mooney. Please! This is a normal catagory traveling machine, not a Pitts, or Champ or any other aircraft that is built for acro. Let me tell you somthing very very seriously. Most aviation fatalities are a direct result of this line of thinking. Your Mooney is not a toy!

You should park that aircraft right now and walk away and save your life. And anyone else who is in that aircraft with you.

I hope I got your attention. I hope that you understand that I love everyone in this forum and I am really curious how no one else has pulled you up by your nose hairs for even thinking about doing this type of flying.

 

 

[triple8s]

I cant remember where i read it, but, I did read an article that a Mooney test pilot had written about his experiences. Seems he did a spin (fully developed) in a Mooney (dont remember the model or other variables) and in his words he was very close to bailing and finally got it to recover. Mooneys are not supposed to be spun, they were designed for transportation, Mooneys are a point a to point b machines. I have a friend who has a Super Decathalon, if i get the urge, he and I go up and after 15 or so minutes I am finished, its all out of my system. Moral of the story? One will more often get best results when the proper tool is used for the job it was intended. If you want to do aerobatics get a machine that does them well and was designed for doing them, otherwise you may end up with a less than desirable outcome.

[Shadrach]

Quote: bd32322

i want to try a legal low pass at full speed over a long runway - get a low approach clearance from tower or something.

the sensation of speed must be superb

[Shadrach]

Quote: 201er

Pull up, slow to minimum speed, push forward? Kinda like this?

[jelswick]

The day I have to do something like is being suggested in order to have fun in my Mooney is the day I put it up for sale.  I hate the idea of having to read about anyone in this forum in an NTSB entry.  These are wonderful machines for what they're intended, not toys and you can easily kill yourself trying to do inappropriate things in them.  Please as others suggested, get a suitable aircraft to do those kinds of maneuvers.

[bd32322]

Quote: Shadrach

Even at 5' off the deck, 190 MPH does not feel as fast as you think it will.

Low passes look much more spectacular from the outside than the inside.

Use a quiet strip of familiar, private property in a sparsely populated area...

[Shadrach]

I have made low passes down private strips. It's fun sure, but it's also just another way to reduce margins.

That video is me... It may not look like it, but I was further away from everyone than it looks, probably well over 1000 ft horizontally and ~200 ft vertically over the field until climbout. 

[Guest]

First I do not support or encourage aerobatics in a standard catagory aircraft but I do personally know a older gentlemen that does perform spins, rolls, hammer heads etc in his vintage (67)Mooney solo only with video cam.  He and a few others have told me they perform better than most think. 

For me I'll stick to Rv's and Pitts for my thrills. 

[Becca]

Quote: jelswick

The day I have to do something like is being suggested in order to have fun in my Mooney is the day I put it up for sale.  I hate the idea of having to read about anyone in this forum in an NTSB entry.  These are wonderful machines for what they're intended, not toys and you can easily kill yourself trying to do inappropriate things in them.  Please as others suggested, get a suitable aircraft to do those kinds of maneuvers.

[Becca]

Quote: 201er

Pull up, slow to minimum speed, push forward? Kinda like this?

[201er]

^ Thank you! Brilliantly put! I never asked about doing aerobatics in a Mooney, just wanted to know what kind of stuff is safely/legally possible.

I've done some of the things you mentioned like collission avoidance dive! Atlantic City approach pointed a pair of C130s straight at me when we were both talking to ACY and didn't alert me of traffic until after I was diving to get out of the way! I admit I was too preoccupied in the cockpit not to notice them sooner but they move fast and you can't rely on flight following to keep you safe! Also have done low passes to have someone on the ground verify gear down when a light wasn't working properly on a rental aircraft.

[N33GG]

A long time ago, I was in the right seat of a few Mooneys with a test pilot in the left seat.  He did things in those Mooneys I will never admit, even under torture, so don't try to make me.  But I will tell you this, that is when I became very impressed with Mooneys and decided if I could ever afford any aircraft, a Mooney would be on the list.  

[jasonwojo]

A couple of people have mentioned low approaches.  I would not reccomend low approaches (low pass, flybys, whatever you want to call them) since the FARs do not allow them.  If you read the regs, the only time you can be at those low altitudes is for the purpose of takeoffs and landings (FAR 91.119).  I have done them and I enjoy doing them, but the FAA Inspector that saw me doing one a couple of years ago did not agree.  He had my license suspended for 6 months for not maintaining a minimum safe altitude (he said I could have crashed into a building at the airport or, worse, killed someone in the vacinity) and reckless operation (FAR 91.13).  I fought the issue and lost.  I do not agree, but it is the rules.  My actions cost me time, lots of money, and, most importantly, my license.  It does not matter if I remember doing low approaches as a student with my instructor 18 years ago for the better understanding of aircraft control.  It does not matter if i felt I was being safe and maintained runway heading the entire time.  It does not matter if 10 people did flybys before me.  It does not matter that nothing and no one got hurt.  The rules are the rules and I got caught.  I am only sharing this experience so others may learn from my mistake (or lack of judgement).  Just my advice...