Annual Inspection in Northern California

[awesb]

Hi, 

I just purchase my M20J last year. The annual is due and I am looking for a reasonable price for my annual. I have read other threads with annual cost ranging from $580 to $3000 or more. Who do you recommend for Northern California, and how much should I expect to pay. I am based at KLHM Lincoln, CA. 

[donkaye]

2 hours ago, awesb said:

Hi, 

I just purchase my M20J last year. The annual is due and I am looking for a reasonable price for my annual. I have read other threads with annual cost ranging from $580 to $3000 or more. Who do you recommend for Northern California, and how much should I expect to pay. I am based at KLHM Lincoln, CA. 

Expect to pay a lot for your first annual, if you want it done right.  If you found someone for $580 to do the annual and you were to ask me to fly with you after the signoff, I would decline.  At the typical A&P rate that wouldn't even be 5 hours.  Just for the inspections Mooney recommends 31 hours for the Bravo, probably somewhat less for the J.  The inspection at Top Gun is around $3,200.  My airplane gets what it wants.  My life and those of my passengers depend on it.  As such, I have a Mooney Service Center do the Annual.  They know Mooneys better than anyone else.  So, I recommend Top Gun in Stockton, but don't expect to get out of there for under $5,000.

[RobertGary1]

On 2/6/2022 at 10:52 AM, awesb said:

Hi, 

I just purchase my M20J last year. The annual is due and I am looking for a reasonable price for my annual. I have read other threads with annual cost ranging from $580 to $3000 or more. Who do you recommend for Northern California, and how much should I expect to pay. I am based at KLHM Lincoln, CA. 

The price range you state is if you do 100% of the work and the ia literally just inspects. This is what I do and pay. This only works if you’re an a&p or similarly field trainer owner. While Mooney service centers often quote $3500 or so that’s a perfect plane and the norm is $10,000 out the door. Non Mooney shops in California may be less. 

[DCarlton]

I'm in SOCAL.  Mine was $4K last year and I assisted and did most of the grunt work (R&R access panels, belly pan and cowl, cleaning, lubricating, etc).  Took 10 days.  Price included tires, tubes and brake discs, and a few misc repairs.  

[kortopates]

Be aware that a quote for an annual inspection is just to perform the inspection part of the annual only; although it may or may not include some of the customary maintenance done with every annual such as oil change, packing wheel bearings etc. you need to ask the shop or IA what is included beyond just the inspection.

but the inspection will come up with a listed of squawks as well as any list you bring with you. All airworthiness issues will have to be corrected in order to sign off the annual and any non-airworthiness issues can be deferred at the owners option. Buts it’s all the maintenance on the needed squawks that you agree to repairing that runs up the bill to the many thousands of dollars. And it’s that final total bill for inspection plus maintenance that owners are referring too - generally not the inspection cost alone.

But keep in mind nobody can predict what you’ll need and including the total bill before the inspection is complete. But any new owner should be prepared to have to deal with a lot of deferred maintenance by the prior owner that will keep your first couple annuals higher than average; especially purchases that might have seemed like a really good deal at the time.


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[LANCECASPER]

4 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Be aware that a quote for an annual inspection is just to perform the inspection part of the annual only; although it may or may not include some of the customary maintenance done with every annual such as oil change, packing wheel bearings etc. you need to ask the shop or IA what is included beyond just the inspection.

but the inspection will come up with a listed of squawks as well as any list you bring with you. All airworthiness issues will have to be corrected in order to sign off the annual and any non-airworthiness issues can be deferred at the owners option. Buts it’s all the maintenance on the needed squawks that you agree to repairing that runs up the bill to the many thousands of dollars. And it’s that final total bill for inspection plus maintenance that owners are referring too - generally not the inspection cost alone.

But keep in mind nobody can predict what you’ll need and including the total bill before the inspection is complete. But any new owner should be prepared to have to deal with a lot of deferred maintenance by the prior owner that will keep your first couple annuals higher than average; especially purchases that might have seemed like a really good deal at the time.

And after the deferred maintenance is handled in the first annual or two, it's nice to keep up with things throughout the year, not just to spread the costs, but to lessen all of the down time at once.

[M016576]

On 2/6/2022 at 12:00 PM, donkaye said:

Expect to pay a lot for your first annual, if you want it done right.  If you found someone for $580 to do the annual and you were to ask me to fly with you after the signoff, I would decline.  At the typical A&P rate that wouldn't even be 5 hours.  Just for the inspections Mooney recommends 31 hours for the Bravo, probably somewhat less for the J.  The inspection at Top Gun is around $3,200.  My airplane gets what it wants.  My life and those of my passengers depend on it.  As such, I have a Mooney Service Center do the Annual.  They know Mooneys better than anyone else.  So, I recommend Top Gun in Stockton, but don't expect to get out of there for under $5,000.

It’s sad how expensive an annual is… but that’s the way it is in general aviation these days.  It’s a rich persons “sport.”  A very specialized industry working on relatively simple machines.  I fear it’s only going to get more exclusive from here on out.

Edited February 13, 2022 by M016576

[M016576]

On 2/6/2022 at 10:52 AM, awesb said:

Hi, 

I just purchase my M20J last year. The annual is due and I am looking for a reasonable price for my annual. I have read other threads with annual cost ranging from $580 to $3000 or more. Who do you recommend for Northern California, and how much should I expect to pay. I am based at KLHM Lincoln, CA. 

I’m currently in central California.  I lived in southern Oregon for about 8 years prior…

the labor rates and taxes are very expensive in California.  I’d recommend flying up to Southern Oregon for your annual.  Grants pass or Medford…Oregon in general is very GA friendly.  There’s an excellent Mooney service center in Portland- but that’s a bit further away.  
 

there are several excellent MSC’s in California as well.  Top Gun is probably closest to you (it’s in Stockton).  My Mooney is current there for it’s annual…but as Don alluded to- it’s very very expensive.., 3200 just for the annual inspection.  And that’s without parts and labor for any squawks.  Crazy expensive.

[Becca]

16 hours ago, kortopates said:

Be aware that a quote for an annual inspection is just to perform the inspection part of the annual only; although it may or may not include some of the customary maintenance done with every annual such as oil change, packing wheel bearings etc. you need to ask the shop or IA what is included beyond just the inspection.

but the inspection will come up with a listed of squawks as well as any list you bring with you. All airworthiness issues will have to be corrected in order to sign off the annual and any non-airworthiness issues can be deferred at the owners option. Buts it’s all the maintenance on the needed squawks that you agree to repairing that runs up the bill to the many thousands of dollars. And it’s that final total bill for inspection plus maintenance that owners are referring too - generally not the inspection cost alone.

But keep in mind nobody can predict what you’ll need and including the total bill before the inspection is complete. But any new owner should be prepared to have to deal with a lot of deferred maintenance by the prior owner that will keep your first couple annuals higher than average; especially purchases that might have seemed like a really good deal at the time.


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Since Byron opened up the shop, I have seen so many variations on how annuals are billed when we compare our invoices to previous invoices.  For instance, some places have flat rate 26-30 hr annuals, but then every single task is billed separately on top of that (oil change + 3 hrs; AD inspection +1 hr; etc.).  RPM is too far for you to come from California, but just for a point of reference, we bill every item on Mooney Annual checklist as part of the labor hours as an annual, but then any squawk fixes as separate, but I am not sure there is a standard practice for this.  I've also learned some planes don't have AD lists already generated -- this is so weird for me, every plane I've flown (clubs, rentals, friends planes, my plane), has always had an AD list.  I am not sure how a mechanic is supposed to do an annual review of AD compliance without this, but apparently they do (or they just make assumptions? I don't know.).  But if your plane If your plane doesn't an AD list, they can take some time to generate for the first time. 

I guess the point I am making is that when you ask a shop about how long the annual takes, make sure you ask what is included so you can compare apples to apples.  Also ask if they use the Mooney factory checklist for the annual.  I will say if you're getting a quote for $500, all that you are getting is opening up some panels and a cursory inspection, if that, its not an annual its a good old fashioned pencil-whipping.  A real annual should take around 25-35 hrs of labor.

As for what other folks have said, one of the pieces of advice I got from several aircraft owner friends when we were shopping for the Mooney is that "it doesn't matter what kind of plane you buy, it takes $10,000 in the first year to get it right."  This was absolutely true for us and our first annual/year of ownership.  And we have seen friends buy planes and have the same experience.  If you haven't been doing maintenance between purchase and your first annual, expect the first annual might find some things that will cost you more than just the inspection labor time. 

Also another thing to consider is if this is your first year of ownership, finding a mechanic that will let you visit the shop during a day or two of the annual so you can learn more about the plane while it is disassembled.

[Ron McBride]

I have seen different shops use different ad note services. Thus I had several ad logs going, they appeared to be the same.   I used to have a print out of the recurring ad’s, to be able to confirm compliance.  
 

[DCarlton]

11 hours ago, M016576 said:

It’s sad how expensive an annual is… but that’s the way it is in general aviation these days.  It’s a rich persons “sport.”  A very specialized industry working on relatively simple machines.  I fear it’s only going to get more exclusive from here on out.

I've convinced myself that A&P shop rates are reasonable when compared to automobile dealerships such as Porsche or Audi (which typically charge more per hour than my aircraft mechanic).  Take a Porsche or Audi to a dealership or auto body repair facility and get 30 hours of work done.  You'll likely pay more than you do for your aircraft maintenance.  I doubt the rates are much less at RAM, Ford, or Chevy dealers in SOCAL.  Haven't had to get work done on my RAM ....  yet.  

[ilovecornfields]

11 hours ago, M016576 said:

I’m currently in central California.  I lived in southern Oregon for about 8 years prior…

the labor rates and taxes are very expensive in California.  I’d recommend flying up to Southern Oregon for your annual.  Grants pass or Medford…Oregon in general is very GA friendly.  There’s an excellent Mooney service center in Portland- but that’s a bit further away.  
 

there are several excellent MSC’s in California as well.  Top Gun is probably closest to you (it’s in Stockton).  My Mooney is current there for it’s annual…but as Don alluded to- it’s very very expensive.., 3200 just for the annual inspection.  And that’s without parts and labor for any squawks.  Crazy expensive.

I like the MSC in Troutdale (Portland) but it’s not any cheaper than Top Gun.

I like how Top Gun does the inspection, gives you a squak list and then lets you say “yes” or “no” to every item on the list. Very professional.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, philip_g said:

I kind of disagree. Yeah they're simple machines but everything takes time and it's hard work. Most a&p charge less than auto mechanics. I don't think it's unreasonable. They're not getting rich off us.  I don't like writing the checks any more than you do but we get to fly these machines because someone's willing to fix them 

Also, there’s a shortage of good mechanics and there are more than enough airplanes to keep good shops busy. Unless you do it yourself, I’m surprised we’re still getting the $3k annuals.

[M016576]

1 hour ago, philip_g said:

I kind of disagree. Yeah they're simple machines but everything takes time and it's hard work. Most a&p charge less than auto mechanics. I don't think it's unreasonable. They're not getting rich off us.  I don't like writing the checks any more than you do but we get to fly these machines because someone's willing to fix them 

Please don’t mistake what I said…. I didn't say that working on GA aircraft is easy or that it isn’t time consuming:  just that it’s expensive and specialized.  Nor do I believe it’s unreasonable based on what’s needed to keep an aircraft airworthy and safe.

I think it’s sad because as the price increases (on everything GA related.. aircraft to parts to labor to insurance to hangars) it’s pricing more and more folks out of GA and that in turn is leading to an older average population base of GA pilots and… the way I see it… a continued contraction in GA as an industry.

kind of crazy though how it has taken a pandemic to strengthen the fleet hull market though.  Makes me wonder how long that will last (forever maybe? Or until the next recession? Time will tell).

[M016576]

2 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I like the MSC in Troutdale (Portland) but it’s not any cheaper than Top Gun.

I like how Top Gun does the inspection, gives you a squak list and then lets you say “yes” or “no” to every item on the list. Very professional.

It was 4 years ago (at least the flat rate annual was), particularly when you factor in no sales tax.

This is the first time I’ve used Top Gun, I’ve heard good things, but I’m sure it’ll be an expensive experience.  The first time in a new shop always seems to be, despite how clean previous annuals may have been,  a new mechanic/shop with a fresh set of eyes always seems to find new things, which isn’t a bad thing when we’re talking safety.
 

 I used LASAR a couple times back when Paul was still at the helm, and they had a similar squawk list procedure as you describe- which I appreciated as well.