First time I declared an emergency…

[1964-M20E]

Similar thing, low voltage, happened to me leaving KORL.  The TWR asked if I wanted to declare and I told them yes without even thinking about it.  I was at pattern altitude when it happened. I turned cross wind flew the pattern and landed without incident to a parade of fire trucks.  Some minor paperwork, one ring lug and an hour later I was on my way.  One note though, I did get a little distracted on final still trying to diagnose the problem instead of focusing on flying the plane and the landing.

 

[KLRDMD]

On 1/10/2022 at 3:37 AM, HIghpockets said:

I will declare "Mayday" anytime I have a situation that jeopardizes the safety of my flight.  You did fine. An alternative would be "Pan, Pan, Pan". Personally, I like "Mayday"

You do realize that airplanes have been flying around, very safely, for 100 years without electrical systems. Mayday seems a bit extreme. Did it really jeopardize his safety of flight?

Edited January 11, 2022 by KLRDMD

[ilovecornfields]

2 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

You do realize that airplanes have been flying around, very safely, for 100 years without electrical systems. Mayday seems a bit extreme. Did it really jeopardize his safety of flight?

I don’t believe it. I watched a video of a famous YouTuber in a Cirrus declare an emergency when one of his two alternators went out in severe clear and demand vectors to the nearest airport because he had no clue where he was. How can a plane fly without an alternator? Wouldn’t it make the engine stall?

Of course, it was the same YouTuber who can’t figure out why his plane is giving him a warning for extending full flaps with ice and makes his passengers severely hypoxic because he doesn’t realize the air gets pretty thin as you ascend…..but I digress. I guess I should probably stop getting ground school lessons from YouTube.

I’m not going to criticize anyone who made it on the ground safely, but I’ve learned something from each of my “emergencies” and it seems like the OP will as well. I’m glad he shared his experience and planted the seed for an interesting discussion.

[steingar]

@Candy man you're lucky they'll work on your airplane.  Won't work on mine.  I had to get in once while my radios were really bad.  I called the tower to let them know the score, and they cleared me to land 12 miles out.  Good thing too, that was the last call I was able to make on those radios.

[KLRDMD]

A couple of years ago I was returning home from San Diego to Tucson in my Bonanza with VFR flight following. It was a typical Arizona fall day, CAVU. I was in cruise at 9,500 ft just west of Yuma, AZ. My autopilot kicked off. I turned it back on again. It kicked off again. I turned it back on again. It kicked off again. I reset the breaker and turned it back on again. It kicked off again. I recycled the master and turned it back on again. It kicked off again. Then my JPI started flashing with a low voltage alarm.

At this point Yuma was off my right wingtip and I considered my options. But why land at an airport hundreds of miles from home just because I had no electrical (charging) system. I figured I lost my alternator and told ATC that and I would cancel flight following and I would be shutting down all electricals but would continue to my destination. ATC gave me a phone number to call asking that I let them know when I was safely on the ground.

The only real issue was I was in the middle ot two restricted areas and there aren't a lot of ground references out in the middle of the desert to ensure I stay out of the restricted airspace. On top of that, my ADS-B that sent data to my iPad was hard wired in so it was gone and my iPad did not have cellular capability and therefore did not have the GPS chip. I used my phone to verify I stayed out of the restricted area.

About five miles from home I tunred the electrics back on to give myself time to manually lower the gear if I didn't have enough juice left to lower it electrically. I even added flaps as needed and landed without incident.

I would say that was far from an emergency, not even an urgency and realistically not even much of an inconvenience.

Edited January 11, 2022 by KLRDMD

[GeeBee]

2 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

You do realize that airplanes have been flying around, very safely, for 100 years without electrical systems. Mayday seems a bit extreme. Did it really jeopardize his safety of flight?

It all depends. If you have definite indication of generation failure such as field breaker pops you might be ok depending on flight conditions. An electrical failure with no other indications is usually a predicate to electrical fire and smoke. The fact that you have an electrical system means there is an additional source of ignition on the airplane. How it fails is determinate on if it is an emergency or not. A fault on the hot bus for instance can be very serious and often gives few indications.

[whiskytango]

@Candy man it sounds like you did everything right.

The last time I declared an emergency (engine oil pressure went to zero) I got a letter from the local FSDO.  All they wanted was a copy of any logbook entries that were made as a result of repairs associated with the emergency declaration.  I sent them a copy of the engine overhaul logbook entry.  End of story.

[MMsuper21]

We should not shy away from declaring emergencies (ego will survive), and you have priority in case the situation deteriorates.
 

My generator went the other month, I tried resetting the breaker no luck, but did not have the balls to turn off the ignition. I was close to my airport so came back without event.

The lesson was to dry run the procedures, turn off ignition on the ground see what happens. Is my handheld charged, know all the breakers by heart, are my mobile backups easy to reach, where are all the vents, act out emergency checklists, etc

I am a new pilot and still remember the procedures in theory and on the trainer but had never actually rehearsed all of them in my plane. 
 

We don’t rise to the occasion, we fall back to our training.

[flyboy0681]

What is the feeling out there for dropping the gear immediately while there is still enough juice remaining? From what I've read here on MS over the years, the manual extension is not always reliable.

[65C_flier]

8 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

What is the feeling out there for dropping the gear immediately while there is still enough juice remaining? From what I've read here on MS over the years, the manual extension is not always reliable.

I'd generally be more worried about the liquid juice than the electronic juice and I'd rather get on the ground quicker, so I'd usually keep it up and rely on the manual extension if required. I try to do the manual extension myself every annual and have a generally look at the motor/clutch/spring to add a bit of extra confidence that it is going to work when I need it.

[HIghpockets]

22 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

You do realize that airplanes have been flying around, very safely, for 100 years without electrical systems. Mayday seems a bit extreme. Did it really jeopardize his safety of flight?

Yes. Perhaps "potentially jeopardizes" is more accurate.  His airplane was not designed to fly without an electrical system. What if an inflight electrical fire developed? Best to use all resources and get the airplane on the ground to sort things out. I have never heard of any pilot being reprimanded for making a conservative judgement.

[GeeBee]

19 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

What is the feeling out there for dropping the gear immediately while there is still enough juice remaining? From what I've read here on MS over the years, the manual extension is not always reliable.

Depends on your fuel state and flight conditions. I can tell you for instance that upon battery exhaustion in a B-767 (not ER models) you have no way to extend the gear. In a Mooney, if your emergency extension was verified in your annual, I would not worry about it a whole lot. Pretty good system.

 

[EricJ]

On 1/11/2022 at 10:50 AM, flyboy0681 said:

What is the feeling out there for dropping the gear immediately while there is still enough juice remaining? From what I've read here on MS over the years, the manual extension is not always reliable.

I've flown home, on about an hour-long leg, with the gear down just to avoid cycling it after an electrical failure.    Didn't climb for crap and was pretty slow, but I got home.   I had called the tower ahead of time to let them know I might be NORDO or on my hand-held.    I hit my expected arrival time on the nose and when I tried to call in on the hand-held they said they couldn't understand me, but if this was N201TS and I could hear them just key the mic twice.   That worked all the way back.   They moved a Bonanza out of my way and I think he may have been a little annoyed about it. 

On a different alternator failure event (same issue, field wire came off), I turned everything off until I got within 10 nm.   Everything worked fine, including putting the gear down, etc.   A difference between this event and the first time was a complete panel overhaul that reduced electrical load, as well as a new battery.

4 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Depends on your fuel state and flight conditions. I can tell you for instance that upon battery exhaustion in a B-767 (not ER models) you have no way to extend the gear. In a Mooney, if your emergency extension was verified in your annual, I would not worry about it a whole lot. Pretty good system.

 

I agree.   This is one reason why being there to actually do the gear extension yourself with your IA is very valuable.  

[0TreeLemur]

On 1/11/2022 at 9:34 AM, KLRDMD said:

iPad did not have cellular capability and therefore did not have the GPS chip. I used my phone to verify I stayed out of the restricted area.

My flight bag contains one of those "Dual" gps modules to serve as backup to the ship's gps through wireless connection to the iPad.   I try and keep it charged.  It only weighs a few ounces and has ~6 h battery life.  Peace of mind in case the phone option fails for some reason.

[ZMERC]

On 1/9/2022 at 9:27 AM, Candy man said:

Did I do everything correctly? I’m on the ground unharmed, the plane is undamaged, and I was never scared or worried. I will be purchasing a handheld, and was wondering do I need to fill out paperwork or inform the FAA? Love the community and thought I’d share my story. By the way, recommendations on handhelds?

Just my perspective.... I would have done nearly everything the same.  The one exception is I would have used a little of my radio time explaining exactly what I was expecting to happen to ATC.  For example, when asked if I was declaring an emergency, I would have replied "I'm losing voltage and may lose electronics, there is no risk to flight at this time, my plan is to continue to OSU, VFR if need be.  If I lose comms prior to OSU, can you coordinate a landing clearance?"  Now the controller knows exactly what's wrong and what my plan is.  Nobody is surprised by what may happen.  ATC would know at this point an emergency doesn't exist, however, if things get worse, like they don't hear me later, or lose my beacon code on radar, they know my plan.  ATC would have done the same as they did with you, declared an emergency.  As for the EMS on standby at the airport, not a problem.   That's why they are there.  The tower controller dispatched them when an emergency aircraft was inbound.  And for the aircraft left on the ground waiting and the practice approaches?  They absolutely are not as high a priority as the aircraft that is inbound with an equipment malfunction.  Sounds like the controller interpreted your predicament pretty well and took every step necessary so that if things didn't work out like you expected you'd still have the best chance at success.  And that's why they are there.

 

[chriscalandro]

On 1/11/2022 at 6:59 AM, ilovecornfields said:How can a plane fly without an alternator? Wouldn’t it make the engine stall?

No. This should have been well covered during your private pilot training. 

[ilovecornfields]

9 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

No. This should have been well covered during your private pilot training. 

What exactly should have been covered during my private pilot training 30 years ago? The quote you provided was blank. I’m dying to know.

[chriscalandro]

11 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

How can a plane fly without an alternator? Wouldn’t it make the engine stall?

Not sure why it ended up blank, but this basic 101 systems knowledge question is the intended target. 
 

you would think after 30 years you would know how an airplane engine works. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by chriscalandro

[ilovecornfields]

3 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

Not sure why it ended up blank, but this basic 101 systems knowledge question is the intended target. 

Did you happen to read the whole post? Perhaps it should have been in a green font to make it clear to everyone quick to criticize that it was intended to be sarcastic.

I know how magnetos work. Yesterday I had a zoom meeting with FSDO and got my AGI certificate. Between the FOI and AGI written tests I missed one question (which the inspector pointed out). It might be wise in the future to not assume that everyone you’re interacting with is an idiot.

[Candy man]

40 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

What exactly should have been covered during my private pilot training 30 years ago? The quote you provided was blank. I’m dying to know.

What should have been covered during PPL training was seeing light gun signals for purpose of demonstration. It would be great to know what they look like when you have an instructor and a radio. In 30 years of flying and BFR’s it should have come up on training.

 

Lawrence 

[WaynePierce]

I noticed a power draw on taxi out for an IR lesson in my J. I turned to the instructor and said we weren't flying that day. I got the plane back in the hangar and put the trickle charger on it and flew the next day to my A&P 16 miles away. I was planning on leaving the gear down the entire way, just in case, but once I got airborne my power draw looked normal and with everything not needed turned off, I raised the gear anyway. Ended up being a loose connector at the regulator and a broken ground wire. I'm about to had down and pick it up this morning.

[ilovecornfields]

43 minutes ago, Candy man said:

What should have been covered during PPL training was seeing light gun signals for purpose of demonstration. It would be great to know what they look like when you have an instructor and a radio. In 30 years of flying and BFR’s it should have come up on training.

 

Lawrence 

Now I don’t know light gun signals either?! I’m losing knowledge at an amazing rate (although I do remember a couple of light gun questions on the AGI written so I must have guessed well).

Please do tell - what else don’t I know that every student pilot does and how did you manage to figure it out?

[Hank]

53 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

Now I don’t know light gun signals either?! I’m losing knowledge at an amazing rate (although I do remember a couple of light gun questions on the AGI written so I must have guessed well).

Please do tell - what else don’t I know that every student pilot does and how did you manage to figure it out?

I saw my first [and still only] light gun signals on a Flight Review back in 2014? 2015? I was new to the area and found an instructor about 20 minutes away to fly with. Used his 182 to combine Review with HP Endorsement. When I got there, it was having electrical issues and had some diagnostic equipment hooked up for CFII to monitor during our evening flight. Everything went well, my after-dark low approach at a military field stopped when I crossed the numbers, and on departure I noticed the panel lights were getting dim . . . He started shutting things off, apparently the alternator wasn't alternating properly / at all, and called CSG tower as we were leaving LSF, and we flew back with 10º flaps down "just in case."

That little green light from the tower is quite visible from the air, and I even remembered the right signal on the taxiway for "cleared to taxi" back to the GA ramp. Really thankful it was the CFII's home field, because I started to turn in on the Commercial side of the barrier fence . . . .

All's well that ends well, right?

[Boilermonkey]

I'm guessing that if the tower is sending you light gun signals in this day and age...they are going to give you a bit of extra margin.   Of course you might have some explaining to do if you screw up, but they might be expecting that.

[ilovecornfields]

All I need to know about light guns I learned from the Opposing Bases podcast. If you land without a clearance (which you would be doing with no radio) and the tower asks you if you saw the light gun, just say “yes.”