What a difference 7 years makes

[donkaye]

I bought my previous iPad Air in 2014.  Over the past year it has become slow with the larger app updates, goes blank with charge indications of 35%, bombs out of Garmin Pilot more and more often, and was generally undependable.  It was apparent that the battery was gone among other things.  It was time to buy a new one.  A week ago I bought the new iPad Pro 11" version.  

Over the past 2 days I was able to really put it to the test in that I decided to fly to Kerrville to try and solve a problem I've been having with my plane over the past several years.  The right inner gear door small rod has broken 4 times, and even though the rigging has been done numerous times by the book, it still keeps breaking.  I am going to do another posting after the fix has been confirmed, but it turns out it may have been a known issue that hadn't been communicated to those of us that upgraded our brake system to the 4 puck system.

At any rate, the trip to Kerrville involved 7 flight hours with numerous weather decisions needing to be made along the way.  The new iPad Pro exceeded all my expectations with its speed, size, and reliability.

 

[ArtVandelay]

I’m waiting for one of the old timers on MS tell us how paper charts and a clipboard and pencil are better, still get their briefings via phone and you don’t need fancy avionics.

[Ragsf15e]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I’m waiting for one of the old timers on MS tell us how paper charts and a clipboard and pencil are better, still get their briefings via phone and you don’t need fancy avionics.

I’ve called the old school 1-800-wxbrief folks a few times in the last year when I couldn’t find something specific I was looking for…. I will not be the person telling you how those old ways were better.  Zero added info.

[McMooney]

I"m doing everything i can to resist buying a new ipad mini 6.  Actually went to the store to look at it, glad they didn't have a display model.

While I still use 1800wxbrief.com pretty much every x-cntry,  can't imagine what would actually make me call.

[Mooney Dog]

57 minutes ago, McMooney said:

I"m doing everything i can to resist buying a new ipad mini 6

Im waiting for pivot to release a case for it so i can keep my company mount

[Rick Junkin]

2 hours ago, donkaye said:

The new iPad Pro exceeded all my expectations with its speed, size, and reliability.

@donkaye, how do you operate the 11" iPad in the cockpit? Mounted somewhere? Thanks for the PIREP!

Cheers,
Rick

[201Mooniac]

2 hours ago, McMooney said:

I"m doing everything i can to resist buying a new ipad mini 6.  Actually went to the store to look at it, glad they didn't have a display model.

I just got mine delivered and I can tell you, don't wait, it is a great upgrade from the mini 5, the speed increase is obvious and the larger screen size is great.  I'm really happy with the upgrade.

[toto]

2 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I’ve called the old school 1-800-wxbrief folks a few times in the last year when I couldn’t find something specific I was looking for…. I will not be the person telling you how those old ways were better.  Zero added info.

The phone briefers on Flight Service were actually really nice back in the day, because they were usually local and had very good knowledge of local conditions and procedures. But ever since the transition to an outsourced service, where you’re talking to someone in a far-away call center, it has had zero benefit vs self-briefing for me. 

[David Lloyd]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I’m waiting for one of the old timers on MS tell us how paper charts and a clipboard and pencil are better, still get their briefings via phone and you don’t need fancy avionics.

Won't tell you it was better, but still can't figure out how to copy a clearance using an iPad pencil.  Just can't make it write fast enough.  How does anyone copy a clearance not using paper and pencil?  12 Years ago I was determined to leave paper charts at home while flying my Dynon Skyview equipped RV7.  12 Years, still struggle with the electric charts!  My new iPad is going to make a complete convert out of me however.  No, I am already a convert.  I was a self briefer with DUATS and it is even better and easier now.  

A few flight briefers used to answer the phone and say their name, gave a real personal touch to the briefing.  In upstate SC one day an Anderson Flight Service briefer answered the phone, "this is Judy."  Judy, what the heck are you doing here?  "They closed the Flight Service in Carlsbad, NM and I moved here."  I had talked to her pretty much every trip to Carlsbad for the previous 20 years.  Her next husband gave me a ride home one night when I was stuck without a car.  Another time after a briefing and flight plan, she asked if I could give her boss a ride to Las Vegas as his flight didn't show due to fog.  Sure.  Bumpy ride, he puked endlessly for the last half of the trip.  It's been a couple years, this reminds me to dig out Judy's email and catch up on the good old days.

[donkaye]

5 hours ago, Junkman said:

@donkaye, how do you operate the 11" iPad in the cockpit? Mounted somewhere? Thanks for the PIREP!

Cheers,
Rick

The iPad is an excellent backup and how I use it depends on the flight.  Most of the time I use it for North Up big picture weather and as a large approach chart. As such, I just keep it on my lap.  This flight I used it for XM weather from the GDL 69A through the FS210 and overlayed Approach Charts, where with one tap they could be changed from Track Up to North Up for easy reading (no upside down characters).  I used the GTN 650 for the Stormscope, the 750 for XM weather and Stormscope, and the TXi for Stormscope.  Periodically, I would use the 750 for ADS-B weather, but I find it inferior to XM weather.

I have so many options for weather that I might change the above division as appropriate.  While there still is some stress when flying weather, this flexibility still makes for a little less stressful flight.

 

 

[Skates97]

9 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

Won't tell you it was better, but still can't figure out how to copy a clearance using an iPad pencil.  Just can't make it write fast enough.  How does anyone copy a clearance not using paper and pencil? 

I have tried off and on to get away from paper and pen, but I find that having a knee-board with a pad for me to quickly jot stuff down on is the best option for me.

[toto]

2 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I have tried off and on to get away from paper and pen, but I find that having a knee-board with a pad for me to quickly jot stuff down on is the best option for me.

I have an iPad case with an Apple Pencil holder that keeps it visible and right next to the iPad on my knee. It still isn’t as easy as scribbling quickly on a piece of paper, but it’s close. And the cockpit is a little bit less cluttered since I have no paper, and I just have the one stylus instead of an array of pens that I used to have stuck in every possible location. 

The transition from giant leather Jepp binders full of approach plates to one little electronic gadget was such a massive improvement that I’m sure I’ll have a tablet sitting in my lap for the foreseeable future. So if I can use that tablet for other things (flight manual, checklists, scratchpad), it’s all gravy. 

[DCarlton]

5 hours ago, donkaye said:

The iPad is an excellent backup and how I use it depends on the flight.  Most of the time I use it for North Up big picture weather and as a large approach chart. As such, I just keep it on my lap.  This flight I used it for XM weather from the GDL 69A through the FS210 and overlayed Approach Charts, where with one tap they could be changed from Track Up to North Up for easy reading (no upside down characters).  I used the GTN 650 for the Stormscope, the 750 for XM weather and Stormscope, and the TXi for Stormscope.  Periodically, I would use the 750 for ADS-B weather, but I find it inferior to XM weather.

I have so many options for weather that I might change the above division as appropriate.  While there still is some stress when flying weather, this flexibility still makes for a little less stressful flight.

 

 

Really really really dumb question but I don't mind showing my ignorance.  I've resisted using an iPad.  Bought one years ago, put an USB port in my plane, paid for the subscription and never used it.  What provides the aircraft position information to the application on the iPad when in flight?  

[toto]

4 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Really really really dumb question but I don't mind showing my ignorance.  I've resisted using an iPad.  Bought one years ago, put an USB port in my plane, paid for the subscription and never used it.  What provides the aircraft position information to the application on the iPad when in flight?  

Usually one of three things:

* Internal GPS if equipped (must be a “cellular” iPad to get the GPS)

* Nav source from a panel-mount device (GTX 345 transponder is a common example)

* Portable GPS like a Stratus or a Stratux (those do double duty as ADS-B receivers, but others like Bad Elf are just GPS units)

 

[carusoam]

Every new iPad I get…

First test…

Is the processor fast enough to capture writing a clearance…?

Maybe… the iPad Pro can do this..?

I have an iPad (6th generation)… probably two years old now… no luck writing anything on it yet…

 

The challenge with clearances…

1) Writing is very quick to keep up…

2) Fitting a lot of detail in a small space…

3) The precision of the I-pencil may help…

4) the new ipads have a nice docking system for the I-pencil that keeps it charged…. But, may interfere with any mounts…

 

So let us know if you have good luck with copying a clearance or drawing taxi instructions on the airport map…

Best regards,

-a-

[toto]

1 minute ago, carusoam said:

Every new iPad I get…

First test…

Is the processor fast enough to capture writing a clearance…?

Maybe… the iPad Pro can do this..?

I have an iPad (6th generation)… probably two years old now… no luck writing anything on it yet…

 

The challenge with clearances…

1) Writing is very quick to keep up…

2) Fitting a lot of detail in a small space…

3) The precision of the I-pencil may help…

4) the new ipads have a nice docking system for the I-pencil that keeps it charged…. But, may interfere with any mounts…

 

So let us know if you have good luck with copying a clearance or drawing taxi instructions on the airport map…

Best regards,

-a-

My biggest frustration with the Apple Pencil is its abysmal battery life. The pencil doesn’t work if it isn’t charged, and the charge lasts only a few hours. 

I have a Surface Pro with a stylus that uses a replaceable alkaline battery that lasts for about a year, and for my purposes it’s every bit as good as the Apple Pencil. 

The Apple Pencil is quite nice, and writes very well with zero lag. But the battery is terrible. 

(I haven’t used a new Pencil, I’m using the original - so the new one may be better..)

Anyway, copying clearances or scribbling notes on a chart really is pretty easy. I just have to remember to charge the dang pencil so it’s there when I need it. 

[DCarlton]

16 minutes ago, toto said:

Usually one of three things:

* Internal GPS if equipped (must be a “cellular” iPad to get the GPS)

* Nav source from a panel-mount device (GTX 345 transponder is a common example)

* Portable GPS like a Stratus or a Stratux (those do double duty as ADS-B receivers, but others like Bad Elf are just GPS units)

 

It's the internal GPS from the cellular signal that I can't get my head around.  Aren't we supposed to not use cell phones at altitude?  Doesn't that hose up the handover between the ground cell sites and/or potentially interfere with aircraft avionics?  The iPads with cellular service are nothing more than data cell phones.  If you're getting it from another panel mounted NAV source (bluetooth, RS232, something....), that makes sense or a portable GPS system with an antenna.  

Edited September 30, 2021 by DCarlton

[toto]

9 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

It's the internal GPS from the cellular signal that I can't get my head around.  Aren't we supposed to not use cell phones at altitude?  The iPads with cellular service are nothing more than data cell phones.  If you're getting it from another panel mounted NAV source, that makes sense or a portable GPS system with an antenna.  

You can you turn on the GPS without turning on the cellular function. I never turn on the cellular function, because it seriously hurts my battery life.

My opinion is that requiring a cellular iPad to get a GPS is primarily a sales gimmick to get people to spend an extra $150 on the cellular function. (I’m a person who buys the cellular iPad only for the GPS, and it’s a little bit maddening, since other manufacturers provide a GPS receiver with their wifi-only units.)

But I like having fewer things bouncing around the cockpit, so I would rather spend the $150 on the cellular iPad than on something like a Bad Elf.

I’m normally getting position from a GTX345, but I want the tablet to have a separate source in case the panel goes dark.

 

 

[donkaye]

After watching a student try unsuccessfully to write a clearance with the Apple Pencil, I chose not to buy one.  I keep a record of every flight whether it is a flight with a student or a flight of mine alone.  I keep a paper copy of them and have found myself going back to review them periodically to confirm either a date of some other factor.

For every flight of mine I record at a minimum, the Date, Start time (from the GTN 650), Air time (from the MVP-50), fuel used (MVP-50 read directly without computation needed), the Ending Tach Time (from the MVP-50), From Location, To Location, if an IFR flight, the Clearance and any Amendments.

[carusoam]

16 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

It's the internal GPS from the cellular signal that I can't get my head around.  Aren't we supposed to not use cell phones at altitude?  The iPads with cellular service are nothing more than data cell phones.  If you're getting it from another panel mounted NAV source, that makes sense or a portable GPS system with an antenna.  

Confusion brought to you by APPL…

The GPS comes with the cellular option…

To get the GPS, it costs a ton and comes with a near useless cell system… (near useless, because the monthly data costs extra… outside my budget.) 

 

The reason we weren’t allowed to use cell phones in the air… was a system clogging problem that occurred decades ago… there were limited cell tower resources… and fast traveling planes used up a lot of the resources…. Lots of tower switching to go with that… because of the altitude, not because of the plane’s speed….

Technically, we are so far from the time when tower clogging was a problem….

Today, often Towers protect themselves from receiving anything much above horizontal….

However, the closer you get to some cities… the better your chances are of getting good cell service at altitude…

All this info comes from José… who knows a lot about electronic devices and antennas for some reason… aka…  @Gagarin

 

So…

Go ahead and use your fancy iPad in the sky… the cell phone companies won’t find you… 

Of course, using a cellphone in a commercial plane… is slightly different… the old analog phones threw off enough electronic noise you could hear them making sounds in your headset…

Just remember one thing… if you keep the iPad low out of the sun… the onboard GPS antenna may get blocked…

PP thoughts only…

Best regards,

-a-

[toto]

9 minutes ago, donkaye said:

After watching a student try unsuccessfully to write a clearance with the Apple Pencil, I chose not to buy one.  I keep a record of every flight whether it is a flight with a student or a flight of mine alone.  I keep a paper copy of them and have found myself going back to review them periodically to confirm either a date of some other factor.

For every flight of mine I record at a minimum, the Date, Start time (from the GTN 650), Air time (from the MVP-50), fuel used (MVP-50 read directly without computation needed), the Ending Tach Time (from the MVP-50), From Location, To Location, if an IFR flight, the Clearance and any Amendments.

I use the Apple Pencil to copy clearances in all cases, but I don’t use it for flight logging. I log flights in MyFlightBook, normally in the cockpit right after shutdown. And then I periodically backfill my paper logbook with all of the entries from MyFlightBook. 

[donkaye]

On this trip I have been using the Apple Maps extensively.  It seems much better than Google Maps, but I'm not sure if it adjusts for traffic as Google Maps does.  I haven't used it enough in traffic.

Filing IFR flight plans and getting preflight briefings in the middle of nowhere requires the cellular iPad.  I use it every time.  Of course, you could use the Hotspot on your phone, but that is a pain and uses power from 2 devices.

[cliffy]

Could the GPS requirement for cellular be because the cell phone uses GPS to locate and triangulate for best cell tower connection OR so YOU can be tracked in your every move down to single digit distances?  :-) 

[carusoam]

Cliffy,

It might have to do with the efficiency of how much stuff you can get onto one computer chip…

And their cell phone chip has the traceable GPS touted as a safety device…. Dial 911, and they know where you are…

 

All I know… with the GPS chip activated… the battery is draining quickly… (on my older devices)

Best regards,

-a-

[Vance Harral]

People have what I think is a mistaken impression that the GPS receiver and the cellular radio in iPads are two separate components, and that Apple chooses to remove both of them in less expensive models for marketing reasons.  It's more likely they're integrated in a single IC (even though they can be independently powered on or off), and that the architecture therefore doesn't support removing one without the other.  The following link claims to be a block diagram of an older model iPad.  While I can't confirm it's genuine, if it is accurate, it shows the GPS receiver and cellular radio as a single unit: https://datasheetgadget.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/ipad-3.png.

I don't expect anyone to take my word as gospel.  Apple doesn't publicize detailed block diagrams of their hardware, and I'm just guessing.  But having spent nearly three decades in the computer hardware industry, I can attest that what consumers sometimes see as a dirty, back-room sales and marketing tactic, is often just an engineering decision based on available components and practical integration constraints.  I'm inclined to believe Apple doesn't offer a WiFi-only iPad with GPS simply because it's too much trouble architecturally.  All modern cellular transceiver chips have integrated GPS, so you get a GPS receiver for free when you commit to cellular.  Leaving that component entirely out of the design is one thing.  Designing and manufacturing a variant that replaces that integrated cellular/GPS receiver with a standalone GPS chip would likely be a much bigger hassle.