Cost of ceramic

[Wildhorsetrail]

Well, learned something today. Never heard of ceramic coatings before.

Sent from my SM-A326U1 using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

3 minutes ago, Wildhorsetrail said:

Well, learned something today. Never heard of ceramic coatings before.

Sent from my SM-A326U1 using Tapatalk
 

Your AMUs were safe…

Now, you have a few videos to catch up on…

And your AMUs are no longer safe….

PP thoughts only, I put a towel on a ceramic surfaced Audi once… it slid right off…

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

On 9/1/2021 at 11:13 AM, tmo said:

Do it, it must be good for at least +5 kts ;-)

Many years ago the CAFE foundation did testing on an old E model.  Speed increase from before and after waxing was about 3 knots, measured with very precise equipment.

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/31072882/wax-job-with-pictpdf-cafe-foundation

Clarence

[A64Pilot]

7 hours ago, Wildhorsetrail said:

Well, learned something today. Never heard of ceramic coatings before.

Sent from my SM-A326U1 using Tapatalk
 

It’s relatively new to me, I tried a consumer product called Nexgen, was highly suspicious of anything you simply spray on and wipe off, but it worked about as well as a good Carnuba wax job but with a whole lot less work. So I was pleased and impressed. I say work based on water beading as I don’t know of any other way to know.

How is the professional stuff applied? It seems that there is a huge markup for Ceramic coatings? Why does Ceramic need special paint correcting compared to wax?

Example local guy wants $70 to wash and clay bar a 6 month old car, which I find reasonable with todays realities, but to apply Ceramic it’s another $300 to over $2,000 depending apparently on length of guarantee. So for the cheap stuff what costs $300? Why is the good stuff seven times more expensive? Isn’t the majority of the expense labor, is there seven times more labor to apply the good stuff?

Where can we buy the “good stuff”? Is “real” Ceramic burnished in with a buffer? Lambs wool cover? I have a good variable speed Mikita and have compounded, polished and buffed boats and cars for years, think I’d like to give this Ceramic stuff a crack myself on a car anyway, paint job on my Mooney isn’t good enough to warrant it, and an airplane is sort of like a boat (there is a whole lot of surface)

Do the Uber high end cars like I don’t know Bentley or RR come with it already applied?

[ziggysanchez]

I also detail, paint correct and ceramic coat aircraft. I'm a Mooney owner and specialize in Mooney aircraft. Check out our Facebook page to see some of the work we've done. Private message me for a quote and details. I will travel to your location in my Mooney. We won't be your cheapest option but we are one of the best. References are available upon request.

[201Mooniac]

I've been considering ceramic coating but haven't found anyone nearby on the west coast.  The work I've seen looks amazing.

[M20F]

Jescar Powerlock isn’t ceramic coating but it is close and a lot easier.  I was a Collonite guy for years and still put a coat on top of the Jescar at times but Jescar is magic.  
 
I would also add if you don’t know what you are doing especially on older single stage paint grinding out with a cleaner wax probably isn’t recommended.  

[Scott McGill]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:04 PM, Hank said:

So what does "coating failure" look like? And what do you do after it happens???

Failure: Wetsand or aggressively polish it off and start over. Usually only high spots are an issue if you're working with someone inexperienced. Nothing that can't be undone if needed.

[Scott McGill]

10 hours ago, ziggysanchez said:

I also detail, paint correct and ceramic coat aircraft. I'm a Mooney owner and specialize in Mooney aircraft. Check out our Facebook page to see some of the work we've done. Private message me for a quote and details. I will travel to your location in my Mooney. We won't be your cheapest option but we are one of the best. References are available upon request.

This team does great work!

We need to start a network of the high level professionals that do this. If I can ever do anything for you guys reach out anytime. All boats rise with the tide. Great to see you guys rocking and rolling!

 

Be Good,

Scott

[Scott McGill]

11 hours ago, 201Mooniac said:

I've been considering ceramic coating but haven't found anyone nearby on the west coast.  The work I've seen looks amazing.

I've flown out to the west coast (commercially) but that travel cost is getting expensive. If you found someone nearby that wanted it done also, could give a quantity discount to keep costs dialed in or could quote for one if you like, would just be in that upper range I posted. Reach out any time or to ZiggySanchez with questions.

 

Best,

Scott 

[tim417]

I’m a hobbyist car detailer and here is the skinny on ceramics, which represent some of the latest technology in the last several years.

There are a great many “ceramic” products that are simply SiO2 infused products, which will give you some of the properties of a true ceramic coating, but not at the same level of effectiveness or longevity. A true ceramic coating requires a significant amount of preparation:

Decontamination both with iron remover and then a clay bar after a thorough washing. After that usually the paint can use some paint correction. Most will need a two step correction for best results. Then a wipedown with isopropyl alcohol to remove any oils left on the paint. After that, the actual coating can be applied. This requires a bit of technique to avoid high or uneven spots. Then the coating must be allowed to cure, usually 24 hours without exposure to any water or weather elements. 

Done right, this can take quite a few hours, but the end result is a high gloss protective coating that sheds water better than wax and with proper maintenance can protect your paint and last years. I did my M20C and it took about three weekends from prep to finish working on it as I had free time.

[tim417]

Another picture after ceramic coat. Keep in mind this paint is pushing 18 years old.

[Scott McGill]

28 minutes ago, tim417 said:

I’m a hobbyist car detailer and here is the skinny on ceramics, which represent some of the latest technology in the last several years.

There are a great many “ceramic” products that are simply SiO2 infused products, which will give you some of the properties of a true ceramic coating, but not at the same level of effectiveness or longevity. A true ceramic coating requires a significant amount of preparation:

Decontamination both with iron remover and then a clay bar after a thorough washing. After that usually the paint can use some paint correction. Most will need a two step correction for best results. Then a wipedown with isopropyl alcohol to remove any oils left on the paint. After that, the actual coating can be applied. This requires a bit of technique to avoid high or uneven spots. Then the coating must be allowed to cure, usually 24 hours without exposure to any water or weather elements. 

Done right, this can take quite a few hours, but the end result is a high gloss protective coating that sheds water better than wax and with proper maintenance can protect your paint and last years. I did my M20C and it took about three weekends from prep to finish working on it as I had free time.

Looks awesome man!

[tim417]

@Scott McGill Thank you! So satisfying when it comes out. 

[Brandt]

On 6/14/2022 at 11:19 PM, Wildhorsetrail said:

Well, learned something today. Never heard of ceramic coatings before.

Sent from my SM-A326U1 using Tapatalk
 

Did it myself with Plane Perfect ceramic. They have both SiO2 and SiO4 products.  So far I like it..

Edited June 17, 2022 by Brandt

[steingar]

14 hours ago, Brandt said:

Did it myself with Plane Perfect ceramic. They have both SiO2 and SiO4 products.  So far I like it..

Me too, though I was unimpressed.  Problem is their wax comes out so unbelievably nice, the "ceramic" products really don't look any different.

[Brandt]

10 minutes ago, steingar said:

Me too, though I was unimpressed.  Problem is their wax comes out so unbelievably nice, the "ceramic" products really don't look any different.

I’m going to try the Gtechniq and see how they compare.

[Danb]

On 6/16/2022 at 12:43 AM, tim417 said:

Another picture after ceramic coat. Keep in mind this paint is pushing 18 years old.

Awesome  I did mine with Griots ceramic wax couple years ago, needs to be done, will do before AIRVENTURE 

[tim417]

I just noticed @A64Pilot’s questions and wanted to try and address some of them here. I am not a professional detailer but I have been an auto detailing enthusiast for about 10 years, buying, learning, and experimenting with nearly every fad and development since then. 

Everything is labeled “ceramic” or “graphene” these days and these products are not equivalent to a ceramic coat. They may have some of the properties of a ceramic coat, last longer than an equivalent product without the SiO2 content, or the product may enhance the longevity of a previously applied ceramic coat, but they are not the same. 

If the product is a spray and wipe on product or a “wax”, it is not a true ceramic coat. So the popular CMX ceramic spray coat or Meguiar’s or Turtle Wax ceramic spray is not the same as a coating. Now they are excellent products that do add gloss, water shedding, and protection to your paint better than the typical polymer spray on/wipe off sealants of decades past, they do not possess the longevity and protection of a true coating.

Ceramic coatings come in a small bottle, usually around 2 ounces. They are applied with a microfiber applicator and once the product has cured, it will solidify and the applicator will be disposed. The bottle of product, once opened and exposed to air, will typically crystalize over a period of time. These products can cost around $75-200 per bottle depending on the brand. Popular brands of ceramic coatings include GTechniq, Adams Polishes, CQuartz, Ceramic Pro, etc.,

The reason why the prep for a ceramic coating typically involves a full decontamination and paint correction prior to application is multi-fold.

1. It is expensive and time consuming to apply so we want to ensure the coating lasts as long as possible. Removing contaminants will help the coating bond to the surface and stay there.

2. The coating is very hard and lasts a long time. Therefore, removing swirls and scratches is a good idea rather than trapping them under the coating. Once cured, the coating cannot be washed off and must be polished off  

3. Even if you are only waxing, it is not a bad idea to clay and chemical decon, and paint correct to maximize the shine and minimize the swirls  The majority of the shine quality of any job lies in the paint itself. Oxidized or swirled up paint can only improve so much regardless of wax or coating, but freshly corrected and decontaminated paint in good condition can look even better than a waxed or sealed job with lesser quality prep. Of course, raw paint will no protection against the elements, but that is a different point.

All that said, if you like to work on your plane’s or car’s paint, you may not need a ceramic coat. With good prep, a ceramic spray product will protect your paint and look fantastic. It will just need to be reapplied every month or two for maximum protection depending on how much of the elements the paint sees.

Best of luck and happy flying!

[Tx_Aggie]

My bird could use a good polishing. This is a great thread. Any recommendations for Texas for a ceramic job?