Let’s hear those panel thoughts on my M20F

[Bryan G]

My Mooney has taken great care of me since our first flight about 18 months ago, but I’m starting to (seriously) consider an avionics upgrade. Nothing immediate, but maybe within the next year.
 

The problem is, I keep going back and forth on what I’d like to do. I’m not looking for a complete panel rebuild, and I’d like to be no higher than $15k after install and trade in credits. I don’t need to upgrade anything but…you all know how it goes 
 

What I have:

STEC-30 w/ GPSS, GNS430W, GMX200, FS210, GMA340, SL30, GTX327 w/GDL82, EDM700 w/FF

What I want:

Glass w/ redundancy. GI-275 stack / Aspen. Possibly an engine monitor upgrade?

Another thought was to clean up the 430w/GMX200 combo to a GTN750…
 

Take a look at my panel and give me some good ideas to consider, thanks!

 

 

(I’m specifically reaching out to the vintage Mooney crew, but understand if this post gets moved to the avionics section)

[carusoam]

Do you have a preference for manufacturer…

Or a list of manufacturers you prefer to avoid?

 

Timeline… within a year is essentially immediate when it comes to avionics….  

Is this a forever-plane?

Best regards,

-a-

[apriav]

Two G5s with gad 29 and gad 13. 

Use Davtron temp sensor.....much cheaper than Garmin.

Remove vacuum pump and all associated.

The nav indicators can go, move tach and mp in there place.

Move engine monitor closer.

[Mooney Dog]

My personal opinion, and what i am currently having done to mine, is do go dual G5s. The Gi275 is an amazing unit as well, the G5s are just a tad cheaper. I believe the g5 also works with the Stec. 

 

If you're happy with the 430, absolutely keep it. It is by far on of the best GPS ive used in airplanes. If you do want to upgrade maybe look for the 650 instead of a 750. It will be closer to the size of the 430 while having a few more features as well and give you 2 nav/com/gps units. 

 

For an engine monitor, thats up to you. If you're going the GI275 route, and extra one can be your EIS as well. I hope to upgrade to a CGR30 at some point for mine. 

 

Edit: I forgot to mention wifi/Bluetooth ADSB and flight planning. If you down have a flight stream, some of the smaller GPS 175 units from garmin are built in flight plan sharing for ipads. I think the gi275 can do it as well but im not sure. All in all its how much you wanna spend on the upgrade. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Mooney Dog

[Bryan G]

I’ll have this airplane for at least 10 years, and no real preference in brand. My Garmin experience has been great, open to other brands though.

I have a UL of 1030, I dont think I want to drop the vacuum system because of the step but I guess I could go electric or fixed.

[apriav]

Electronics International is having a sale good through the 10th, primary instrument for $3000 with trade in and replace a bunch of stuff.....

Put it in a nav indicator hole.

[apriav]

Take it off, don't have one on mine.......don't miss it.

[carusoam]

The electric step is a great solution if you do decide to pull the vac system…

There is more than 100 in the field….

Best regards,

-a-

[Bryan G]

After having the Flight Stream 210, I could not go without it! So bluetooth flight planning is a must. 

I do love the 430W, the GMX200 is nice but I’m not overly in love with it

The G5 stack has always been on my list of desires, but I keep finding myself in a loop looking at the Aspen, and then the GI-275.

 

[Utah20Gflyer]

I think the 2 garmin 275s would give you the maximum additional utility.   Personally I think they are the better deal than G5’s for the Mooney application because they allow the removal of 4 of the six pack instruments as well as CDIs if you have them.  In a tight Mooney panel that makes room for lots of other things in the future.   Better functionality and options as well.  Worth a couple extra thousand dollars in my opinion.  
 

I’m looking to add a garmin 355 gps/com and a 275 HSI in my Mooney in the next month.  When funds allow I’ll add the AI.  

[Mooney Dog]

So for reference My 6 pack single nav/com is being upgraded to 2 g5s, a 375, and 2 255a nav/coms right now. I do not have an AP but its set up so i can pop in the GFC500 in 2 years or whever i want to pay the extra money for it. At that time im also going to go for the EIS as well. 

 

My plane did not have a gps so upgrading for me was just going what i wanted vs price. Had i your panel when i got my airplane. I would have just added G5s and called it a day most likely. 

[KSMooniac]

My path for that plane:

JPI EDM 900, remove legacy engine instruments
PMA-450B audio panel, sell Garmin
G5 or GI-275 as an HSI, sell one CDI
Consider CIES fuel senders if going with EDM 900
Consider a Surefly?

electronic HSI gives an attitude backup. A glass PFD won't make your plane any safer or more capable, just blingy. Keep the vacuum for the AI and step.

Fly the 430W and GMX until they fail, especially since you have the FS210 so the dated 430 interface is already bypassed with an iPad. If you really want to ditch it, then maybe a 540 (new tray, but reuse existing connectors) or 750 (completely new install) to replace both screens, but I don't see the value while your stuff is working.



Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[hammdo]

2 G5's (AI/HSI), Avidyne 440 direct swap, keep the needles as backups, sell the 430W...

https://www.avidyne.com/product/ifd440-gps-navigator/

-Don

[Bryan G]

@KSMooniac the PMA450 looks awesome, I’m intrigued. I agree with the 430/GMX, no real reason to change it out yet unless someone can convince me otherwise. 
 

I know prices change from shop to shop, but is having a new panel cut…in my case, the left half…expensive or tough to do? If I went G5/275 stack I could eliminate one CDI, remove the altimeter and VSI, and clean up the left side a lot. That could leave room for an EDM900 on the left side, maybe even flush mounted. I can see this sprinting right out of my price range fast haha!

 

@hammdo I need to find someone with an Avidyne to play with and see how it compares, but I think I might have to keep the AMUs for the glass instead

@carusoam I’m going to take a look into those electric step conversions, wonder what kind of useful load I’ll gain if I dropped the vacuum 

[hammdo]

I have the step, maybe a pound for the step alone.... all vacuum removed - maybe 3-4 lbs

Good luck! Lots of choices...

-Don

[KSMooniac]

PMA 450 is the best audio panel on the planet. Full stop. I upgraded from Garmin 4 years ago and love it. There are used 450 and 450A models out there too.

I am adamant about the EDM 900 on the pilot side, but could tolerate it on the right. If you do upgrade in stages, just leave enough harness slack to move it over later. Cutting a new panel isn't terrible, especially from Mooney folks like Aerodon here. He might take a trade on your old EDM too.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[Bryan G]

I definitely want the engine monitor on the pilot side, I wouldn’t upgrade the engine monitor unless I could put it in the right spot this time. 
 

I’m currently stationed in the Central Valley of California, but I have a couple friends with airplanes that could help ferry me if someone has a good avionics shop recommendation within a couple hours by Mooney. I’m at HJO.

@hammdo how do you feel about the extension speed of the step, did you tie it to the beacon/strobe?

[carusoam]

For fun…

If you have questions about…

PSEngineering products… we have a really good guy for that around here most days….

EI products…. We have a really good guy for those as well most days…

Garmin products… we have so many MSers that really know their stuff… before we go to our big G go to guy…

For Avidyne products….  Lance is probably a great Mooney owning knowledgable guy as well as Paul…

Best regards,

-a-

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, Bryan G said:

I’ll have this airplane for at least 10 years, and no real preference in brand. My Garmin experience has been great, open to other brands though.

I have a UL of 1030, I dont think I want to drop the vacuum system because of the step but I guess I could go electric or fixed.

Keep the step, get Rob @takair's electric step. It is an easy install and it is great.

For the audio panel get the PMA450B and never look back. It has so many features to it. On the way back from Oshkosh we were flying along at 10,500 over New Mexico and there on the display pops up my friends phone number, so I pushed the soft button on the audio panel to answer the call and had a nice chat in crystal clear audio as we were flying along.

This was my panel when I got my plane.

This is my panel now which also has the GFC500 controller above the audio panel. It was done somewhat in stages. I still need to have right and left sides cut to flush mount the G5's and the EDM900 as well as get the whole panel the same color. But right now it is functional.

[MikeOH]

*** HERETIC WARNING ***

I have the STEC-30/alt, 430W, an Insight G3, and FF.  I have no reason to upgrade.  I ask myself do I need glass?  The answer always comes back "NO"

How many IMC hours do you log a year?

Is this a real need, or just a want?  If the latter, then Hammdo's two G5s sounds like the best way to give you your 'fix'

[Bryan G]

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

*** HERETIC WARNING ***

I have the STEC-30/alt, 430W, an Insight G3, and FF.  I have no reason to upgrade.  I ask myself do I need glass?  The answer always comes back "NO"

How many IMC hours do you log a year?

Is this a real need, or just a want?  If the latter, then Hammdo's two G5s sounds like the best way to give you your 'fix'

You’re 100% right…I don’t log a lot of IMC hours in my Mooney, and I don’t need it. But I “need” it 

@Skates97 that’s exactly what I need…you and KS have me sold on the 450! Also sold on the electric step. I dig your left side panel layout, that might be the direction I’ll head. Engine monitor is in a great spot IMO too. What are you expecting the flush mount G5s and EDM900 to run ya? 

I’m leaning towards the EDM830. But from a EDM700…I see simple swaps to the 730, but not to the 830. I’ll have to research more, I know the 900 would be great but I don’t think I’ll need the panel space, I’ll likely just leave the original engine instruments as they are.

Current mindset is a G5 stack (or 275), PMA450B, EDM830/900 and a panel cut…electric step and vacuum removal. Probably more than a year out, all of this is about 13.5 AMUs without install but I love where it’s heading! Thanks for all the input so far, please keep it coming!

Edited August 3, 2021 by Bryan G
Added a question for Skates67

[ArtVandelay]

Given your budget, I go with dual G5s, and since you’re not in a hurry, I would keep an eye out for used G5s. Ditto for used Stec parts (servos, controller) to maintain your current AP, and lose the vacuum pump.
Then get a certified monitor and lose the old engine gauges, a 900 would fit nicely where your 6 pack of engine gauges is. It’s more about removing future maintenance issues than panel space. Remove the compass from the vertical bar and install a panel mount where your old JPI 700 EM is now to open up the front view.

[0TreeLemur]

Example: Here's how a primary EDM can clean up the RHS of your panel.

 

[markgrue]

I personally will opt for the Aspen 2000 system with an Avidyne 440 to provide a GPS NAV COM.  the second nav com is a KX155 with glideslope.  I also have an electric attitude indicator for backup.  I am not a fan of the Garmin stuff.  I do like Richards layout though.  I am still undecide on the engine monitor.  I will probably leave it on the right side....  Just my preference.

Mark

[The Other Red Baron]

I prefer Avidyne over Garmin  I’ve rented a plane with a GTN650 and wasn’t a fan of it being so touch screen heavy.  I like the EDM being right in my face.