A real nasty icing signature!

[GeeBee]

Many years back I got to associate with some guys from Aeroflot. One thing the Russians say "Nyet" to is freezing rain. They don't operate in it. That should be a clue as they are some of the greatest cold weather operators in the world.

 

[Ibra]

25 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Many years back I got to associate with some guys from Aeroflot. One thing the Russians say "Nyet" to is freezing rain. They don't operate in it. That should be a clue as they are some of the greatest cold weather operators in the world.

I guess airframe icing is not an issue past -40C or -80F and dry continental climate 

But could be problematic for engine fuel & oil and pilot bones 

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/14/region-in-siberia-has-longest-cold-spell-for-14-years

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

34 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Many years back I got to associate with some guys from Aeroflot. One thing the Russians say "Nyet" to is freezing rain. They don't operate in it. That should be a clue as they are some of the greatest cold weather operators in the world.

 

Freezing rain is bad news, but have you ever seen anything made in Russia that is reliable?  Soyuz rockets have 25 engines for redundancy.  I have seen video of launches where you can see at least 3-4 not functioning.

[tmo]

14 minutes ago, AH-1 Cobra Pilot said:

Freezing rain is bad news, but have you ever seen anything made in Russia that is reliable?  Soyuz rockets have 25 engines for redundancy.  I have seen video of launches where you can see at least 3-4 not functioning.

While I am not a fan of Soviet tech, they did launch the 1st artificial satellite, only then the US stepped up their game. And one could argue that a successful launch with 1/6 of the engines not running is a win.

[gsxrpilot]

I've worked with some extremely brilliant Russian engineers. They didn't have the stuff to work with that we do, but well educated and just super intelligent. And often in three or four languages. 

[GeeBee]

59 minutes ago, AH-1 Cobra Pilot said:

Freezing rain is bad news, but have you ever seen anything made in Russia that is reliable?  Soyuz rockets have 25 engines for redundancy.  I have seen video of launches where you can see at least 3-4 not functioning.

Yes. Kalashinikov. Ask your ground pounders which they would rather have. AK-47 or M-16.

I own the semi auto versions of both by the way. One looks like it is made with a wood rasp and functions perfectly. I have never, ever cleaned it.  The AR-15 requires constant cleaning to function properly.

 

 

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Ask your ground pounders which they would rather have. AK-47 or M-16.

How far away are the targets?

The biggest difference in effectiveness between these is the caliber, anyway.

[GeeBee]

Yeah. With the 7.62, they don't get up and run. Even the snipers know to shoot 7.62

 

 

 

[Scott Dennstaedt, PhD]

On 2/11/2021 at 10:59 AM, HXG said:

Here’s a NWS  link including SkewTLogP icing signatures:
https://www.weather.gov/jetstream/skewt_samples

Keep in mind that the freezing rain signature they show here only accounts for about 8% of the cases.  It’s the exception, not the rule.  While the signature they point out is dangerous for pilots, the nonclassical case is the one that tends to not be well understood by pilots.  In fact, the entire temperature profile can be below freezing and still produce freezing rain or more likely freezing drizzle.  Also what is said about sleet (below) is not entirely accurate.  The snowflake only partially melts and retains a slushy core. The retained core is what allows the partially melted drop to refreeze.  Without that core (complete melting), the air must be extremely cold for it to "refreeze" into a pellet.  Sleet is a very important indicator of SLD aloft. 

"As snow falls into the 'warm nose', it melts into a liquid drop/rain. Then the liquid drops fall back into the arctic air mass (near the ground) that is cold enough and deep enough for the liquid to freeze into ice pellets before reaching the ground.”

For another explanation, you can read my blog here on precipitation types.  

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Scott Dennstaedt

[Seth]

On 2/7/2021 at 5:45 AM, mike_elliott said:

Scott was on the agenda for the Summit VIII we postponed, perhaps @Seth has him back on. I know Seth is busy putting this Summit together as the reins pass to the younger gen of Mooney pilots and will soon have the agenda up.

I will have the agenda out soon!

-Seth

[GeeBee]

20 hours ago, Scott Dennstaedt said:

Keep in mind that the freezing rain signature they show here only accounts for about 8% of the cases.  It’s the exception, not the rule.  While the signature they point out is dangerous for pilots, the nonclassical case is the one that tends to not be well understood by pilots.  In fact, the entire temperature profile can be below freezing and still produce freezing rain or more likely freezing drizzle.  Also what is said about sleet (below) is not entirely accurate.  The snowflake only partially melts and retains a slushy core. The retained core is what allows the partially melted drop to refreeze.  Without that core (complete melting), the air must be extremely cold for it to "refreeze" into a pellet.  Sleet is a very important indicator of SLD aloft. 

"As snow falls into the 'warm nose', it melts into a liquid drop/rain. Then the liquid drops fall back into the arctic air mass (near the ground) that is cold enough and deep enough for the liquid to freeze into ice pellets before reaching the ground.”

For another explanation, you can read my blog here on precipitation types.  

 

It certainly explains why the worst icing I ever experienced was after the sun went down on freezing rain and it turned to snow. It was in a Mad Dog (aka "the popsicle") and it was not fun.