LED Replacement for Whelen Model #70303 Light

[PeteMc]

15 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Not seeing info on what Mooney models/years/serial numbers?

If you go back to Page 3 in this thread and look for a post on March 31,2021 from PilotX you'll see the wingtip.

PilotX is showing a mod, not the new  bulb from Whelen, but you'll see what the wingtip and installation looks like.

[FastRide]

 

Whelen folks at Oshkosh said "very soon" on recognition lights and that the fastest way to get was from Gallagher since he is getting the first lights.... they are bright...

[Airways]

Can’t wait 

[OSUAV8TER]

Feedback from WAT is that they will be much brighter than what was on display at Oshkosh. I am taking 10% deposits for the initial lights that will be coming out with delivery in Q4 of this year. When you order you will be added to my distribution communication email list with regular updates on its progress.

https://www.gallagheraviationllc.com/whelen-aircraft-lighting.html <-- order here 

Scroll down until you see this.

[Tmack201]

Straight from Whelen.

[OSUAV8TER]

Jeff is the man so that is freshest as it comes.

James

[Tmack201]

Some new info for those of us wanting this LED replacement. I tested the voltage on the wires to the 70303. 24v! So, emailed Jeffery at Whelen. Evidently, some Mooneys have the resistor installed, some don’t. I suggest anyone in 28v airplanes to check voltage! If it’s 24v, then this replacement won’t work. I have an Orion 650 wingtip setup which must be 28v. Also, if you are going to replace your 70303 recognition light, they are offer it in 14v and 28v, which threw up the red flag for me! Hopefully, Whelen will have a 28v LED replacement, but we are a small market, so going back with a 70303. Bummer!

[PeteMc]

38 minutes ago, Tmack201 said:

Evidently, some Mooneys have the resistor installed, some don’t.

And why can't you add the resistor if you don't currently have one???  

If some Mooneys do have it, then isn't it an approved thing?  Or does it even need to be?  Can't a A&P sign it off?  (Thinking that sounds like something that falls under their sign off.)

 

[Scottknoll]

I have an order in for these. Looks like I have a 7.5 ohm resistor in the recog light circuit based on the wiring diagram for 29-0131 through 29-0143. It looks to be two separate circuits. One for the left and one for the right, both energized via the recog light switch. Each side shows the 7.5 ohm resistor. I’m assuming that means it’ll measure 14v, but I’m not exactly sure how that math works. Interesting to hear that some have it and some don’t. I’d think it would be simple and legal to add as well, but I’m just a pilot.

[Marc_B]

Interesting.  I'll have to check my voltage as I'm not sure...M20K Encore, MSM schematic (25-2001 thru 25-2012) looks like it has a resistor but not marked regarding specs.  28V system; but not sure the voltage on the recogs.  Where is the resistor located?  at the wing tip vs. accessible from inspection panel?  I have a set on pre-order from @OSUAV8TER.

[N231BN]

I have an order in for these. Looks like I have a 7.5 ohm resistor in the recog light circuit based on the wiring diagram for 29-0131 through 29-0143. It looks to be two separate circuits. One for the left and one for the right, both energized via the recog light switch. Each side shows the 7.5 ohm resistor. I’m assuming that means it’ll measure 14v, but I’m not exactly sure how that math works. Interesting to hear that some have it and some don’t. I’d think it would be simple and legal to add as well, but I’m just a pilot.

Voltage Drop = Current (amps) X Resistance (ohms)

If you don't have the light hooked up, there is no current so it will read battery voltage.

[mhrivnak]

@OSUAV8TER per Jeff Argersinger's message above, I saw a similar email response he sent to a friend, but this doesn't add up. If they are depending on the factory-installed 7.5 ohm resistor, it will only drop the voltage by about 1V because the current flow is much less. The new part states a current range of 0.12A - 0.16A:

0.12 amps * 7.5 ohms = 0.9V drop

0.16 amps * 7.5 ohms = 1.2V drop

Obviously that's not going to lower the voltage to 14V on a 28V system. But we can see how that resistor worked fine for the old 2A bulbs:

2 amps * 7.5 ohms = 15V drop

Whelen has electrical engineers who understand this much better than I do. But with their sales director telling people it'll work because of the factory-installed resistor, that just doesn't seem correct. Maybe something's lost in translation?

This other thread (linked below) mentions that the device has a transducer, and you also stated there that "there is a step down box to get it from 28V to 14V".

Do you have official confirmation that the device by itself, with whatever comes in the box, will be able to work with 28V? Or for those us of with the resistors, 27V? With the mixed messages, it seems to be in everyone's interest to make sure there's a clear statement from Whelen that the light will work with an input of close to 28V.

 

[OSUAV8TER]

I have asked.

[OSUAV8TER]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:38 PM, Tmack201 said:

Some new info for those of us wanting this LED replacement. I tested the voltage on the wires to the 70303. 24v! So, emailed Jeffery at Whelen. Evidently, some Mooneys have the resistor installed, some don’t. I suggest anyone in 28v airplanes to check voltage! If it’s 24v, then this replacement won’t work. I have an Orion 650 wingtip setup which must be 28v. Also, if you are going to replace your 70303 recognition light, they are offer it in 14v and 28v, which threw up the red flag for me! Hopefully, Whelen will have a 28v LED replacement, but we are a small market, so going back with a 70303. Bummer!

They are going to do a 14V and 28V version. Expect an email from me today (assuming you pre-ordered). 

[OSUAV8TER]

Here is the message I just emailed.

This email provides an update on the Mooney LED recognition light you have placed a 10% deposit on. Unfortunately the light will not be ready to distribution by the end of the month. It was originally assumed that 28V Mooneys all had a transformer box in the aircraft that stepped down the power from 28V to 14V, which many do. Over the past couple of months Whelen has learned that is not the case in all 28V Mooney aircraft. This was initially unknown due to inconsistent or missing documentation from the OEM. Fortunately, many Mooney owners have provided good feedback to help better understand the problem before it moved too far down the line. We want to get this right. Because of this, Whelen made a recent design change to have both a 14V and 28V LED recognition light option. Those part numbers are now 01-0770303-10 and 01-0770303-20 (14V and 28V) respectively. Whelen is expecting this light to be ready in late February/early March due to the delay. What I need from each of you is to indicate whether you need a 14V or 28V version. For 28V Mooney aircraft, you need to figure out if you have that power box. To do that you can test the voltage at the lamp or if you have replaced the legacy 70303 series lights before, part numbers 01-0770303-00 and 01-0770303-01 are 14V and 28V respectively.

Please reply to me directly to indicate whether you need 14V or 28V so I can make adjustments to outstanding orders.

I appreciate your patience and be sure to check out our new website at www.gallagheraviationllc.com. If I can help you with any additional lighting needs, please let me know.

[Pinecone]

I think you need more precise instructions.  

From some of the previous comments, you need to measure open circuit voltage.  If you measure voltage across the bulb, those with the dropping resistor will show 14 volts, but they will be delivering 27 volts to the LEDs due to the lower current.

I wonder why Mooney would install a dropping transformer/power supply (cost and weight) versus the dropping resistor or a 28 volt bulb.

[Marc_B]

@OSUAV8TER any clue why WAT didn't make these variable 14-28 volts like all of their taxi/landing lights??  Then just have to offer one to fit them all!

[OSUAV8TER]

1 hour ago, Marc_B said:

@OSUAV8TER any clue why WAT didn't make these variable 14-28 volts like all of their taxi/landing lights??  Then just have to offer one to fit them all!

They were attempting to do that but have now decided to go with two different models but I do not know the rationale why. 

[amillet]

Does the parts manual identify which serial numbers are 14v vs 28v?

if not, where would one measure open circuit voltage?

[N231BN]

A transformer won't pass any current on a DC circuit. Did Mooney actually use a step down converter? The only parts catalogs I have are J, K, and R. They all show a resistor on the 24V airplanes.

[Scottknoll]

My schematic shows a 7.5 ohm resistor, the Whelen halogen replacement bulbs appear to be 25 watts. 7.5 ohms (R) and 25 watts (VI), ohms law (calculator) shows it should be ~ 13.7 volts and 1.8 amps. Have no idea if this is correct or not, but I think I’ll need the 14v version.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, N231BN said:

A transformer won't pass any current on a DC circuit. Did Mooney actually use a step down converter? The only parts catalogs I have are J, K, and R. They all show a resistor on the 24V airplanes.

I think the "transformer" idea was based on incomplete knowledge.

[Pinecone]

Was not thinking when I said transformer.

I just don't see them putting in a voltage converter (one for each side???).

If no other reason, they an unneeded expense.

 

The 252 IPC shows the lamp to be a 01-07770303-00, which is the 14 volt lamp. But, as others have stated, if there is a simple dropping resistor, the LED lamp will see about 27 volts.

You REALLY need to talk to Whelen about this.  Otherwise there are going to be a bunch of burned out lamps.

[N231BN]

If everyone orders the LEDs based on their aircraft voltage they will be fine. For the 28v airplanes, you can leave the resistor as it will only be dropping about 1 volt or just bypass it.

On the Ovation I just had in the shop the resistor is not in a convenient location to remove but the wiring is easily accessible.

[Pinecone]

That is probably the best idea.

I was just suggesting that James talk to Whelen to have them understand that we don't (AFAIK) have an actual voltage converter, but just a dropping resistor.