G3X panel pics?

[gsxrpilot]

47 minutes ago, Nippernaper said:

An update on my install: 

Still waiting on parts from Garmin as well.  Were supposed to arrive last week, but no sign of them, and no indication when they will ship.  You would think since this is an existing product, they would have stock available.

I'm also discovering some rather nasty surprises Garmin has built in.  If you are using a non-garmin autopilot, you can only connect 1 (one) nav source to the G3x.  I'm installing a GNX375 and an SL-30, but with this latest twist, won't be able to connect the SL-30 in any way shape or form to the G3X, due to a connection with the STEC-30 that's in the plane.  Sooo, after all this, I'll still need a separate CDI indicator for the nav radio.  Makes absolutely no sense.  I'm wondering if this isn't a dirty trick to push you toward the GFC500.  Needless to say, I'm not a happy camper.

When the G3X was announced I read everything I could find on it, I also dialed in and listened/watched both of the Garmin webinars on the product as well. I was also able to ask questions. I came away from that week of research with the real understanding that to get max benefit, and even all the features, I'd have to have a 100% Garmin panel. The G3X has a very attractive price and is a great piece of kit. But unless you already have a full Garmin panel, it's not nearly as attractive financially. Consequently it's dropped off my interest list altogether.

[Nippernaper]

21 minutes ago, flyingcheesehead said:

It's probably just that there are only two connections available on the G3X, not any sort of trick. This product was designed several years ago, for a different market (experimental) that is largely new installations and probably using Garmin's autopilot as well, so they didn't anticipate a need for more.

That may well be the case.  I know next to nothing about the details of avionics installations, but you would think output to an autopilot would be a separate connection issue than input from nav/gps sources.  

[gsxrpilot]

4 minutes ago, Nippernaper said:

That may well be the case.  I know next to nothing about the details of avionics installations, but you would think output to an autopilot would be a separate connection issue than input from nav/gps sources.  

The thing is that it very well might work perfectly. But with certificated airplanes and STC's, it depends on who's applying for the STC (Garmin) and what they want to include in the filing. Garmin has consistently taken the approach of releasing STC's with nothing but Garmin connections. Therefore even though the connection would likely work fine, it's not a legal installation or configuration. As the big dog on the block, Garmin doesn't have to add King autopilots to their STC filing, and then there's nothing we can do about it. 

I'm sure I'd feel differently if I didn't have $50K of non-gamin stuff in my panel already.

[Emmet]

I don‘t see any reason why this should not work. The S-Tec will be connected via the GAD29B to the Garmin world. The SL-30 should be connected to the G3X via RS232.

For what do you need the direct connection between the SL-30 and the S-TEC ??

You might have a RS232 converter, but that should not be needed anymore and therefore the RS232 should be free.

[Nippernaper]

9 minutes ago, Emmet said:

I don‘t see any reason why this should not work. The S-Tec will be connected via the GAD29B to the Garmin world. The SL-30 should be connected to the G3X via RS232.

For what do you need the direct connection between the SL-30 and the S-TEC ??

You might have a RS232 converter, but that should not be needed anymore and therefore the RS232 should be free.

You would think, but apparently the STC does not allow it.  My limited understanding is that the GNX375, SL-30, and STEC all go through the GAD29B.  I'll try to find the document from garmin that states this.

[Nippernaper]

Found it.  It's in the Part 23 AML STC Maintenance Manual.  (190-02472-02_02.pdf).  Note 6 under figure 2-11, on page 16 "If a non-Garmin autopilot is installed, only one external navigator (GPS and/or VHF) can be connected to G3X.  A second navigator, if installed, must use a dedicated CDI and cannot interface to G3X."  So if you're using a GNX375, and want to fly an ILS, you're hosed even if you have a garmin nav radio also installed.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Nippernaper

[Emmet]

Ah - so this is not a technical but a STC issue ...

[flyingcheesehead]

On 5/29/2019 at 1:12 PM, gsxrpilot said:

Garmin has consistently taken the approach of releasing STC's with nothing but Garmin connections. Therefore even though the connection would likely work fine, it's not a legal installation or configuration. As the big dog on the block, Garmin doesn't have to add King autopilots to their STC filing, and then there's nothing we can do about it. 

Consistently? 

Sorry, not buying it. Everyone loves to pile on Garmin because they're the big fish, but they're the big fish in an excessively small market. But of Garmin's 4(?) divisions, Aviation is the least profitable. We should be happy that they still choose to play in the market to the extent they do. Modern business tends to like to shut down least-profitable divisions...

Also, I have a very mixed panel. King AI/HSI/Autopilot/Nav/Com2, Shadin fuel flow, Garmin GPS/Nav/Com1/Transponder/Audio panel... And it all works together, flawlessly. Look at the list of things that Garmin's new stuff like the G500 TXi and G5 HSI are compatible with. It's quite extensive.

Everything that Garmin decides to be compatible with requires testing, and that takes time and money. 

Now, the things that aren't compatible with non-Garmin stuff are the G5 AI and the G3X Touch. They have their roots in the experimental side, where people are putting brand-new panels in brand-new airplanes and thus they don't particularly need to worry about being compatible with anything else. 

And the word is that there will be a G5 AI that can drive third-party autopilots at Oshkosh...

So, IMO, the Garmin-bashing I see here and elsewhere isn't really fair. You want more companies making stuff that's more compatible with everyone else for a reasonable price, quitcherbitchin and go recruit some new pilots so the market is more attractive!

[gsxrpilot]

Compared to the other's such as Aspen, Avidyne, PS Engineering, Genesis, BK, etc... Yes, Consistently.

[flyingcheesehead]

12 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Compared to the other's such as Aspen, Avidyne, PS Engineering, Genesis, BK, etc... Yes, Consistently.

con·sis·tent·ly

/kənˈsistəntlē/

adverb

1. in every case or on every occasion; invariably.

 

So, since I gave two examples right off the top of my head of recent Garmin equipment that interfaces with many other manufacturer's equipment... No, not consistently.

 

Your counterexamples above aren't particularly relevant, because they don't make a wide enough variety of equipment to even be able to exist without interfacing with others, BK's rebranding notwithstanding.

 

Note that I'm not trying to have an argument with you in particular, but to me the general Garmin-bashing in the GA community is tiresome. They make good equipment, which is why everyone wants it, and we're lucky that they devote the level of resources to our industry that they do.

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by flyingcheesehead

[wishboneash]

Not a Mooney. G3X, GTN650, G5 and GFC500. I was a passenger.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[Bryan]

I really like Garmin equipment - I really think they are a level above their current competition but are defintily not the low price leader.  When buying Garmin, you are paying for quality IMO.  Garmin is similar to Apple - there stuff just works and they really put a lot of though into UX (user experience) and compatiblity with their own products.  Yes, sometimes, they don't like to share interfaces with their competition or to the industry standard until necessary but their quality seems to be top-notch.

[Nippernaper]

Another update:  Have been in direct contact with Garmin about the availability issues, and they are being very proactive.  They have coordinated with my shop to make sure items on the critical path get higher priority such that my installation will not be delayed due to parts availability.  Still working through the issues regarding limited navigator connectivity when installed with a non-garmin autopilot.  We have a solution, but it's contradicted by language in the install manual.  Hopefully this gets resolved soon.  I've been quite impressed with Garmin's customer service.

[orionflt]

On 5/11/2019 at 7:57 PM, M20C66Q said:

Currently in the process of installing a Garmin G3X in my '65 M20C, along with some other upgrades. Take a look at my cad drawing that is to scale.  N5866Q Panel.pdf

any chance of getting your CAD drawling in CAD not PDF?

[M20C66Q]

M20C Panel re-due to accommodate GTN 750/650 combo and G3X w/EIS. Maybe the first vintage Mooney with a G3X . 

 

[Oldguy]

3 hours ago, M20C66Q said:

M20C Panel re-due to accommodate GTN 750/650 combo and G3X w/EIS. Maybe the first vintage Mooney with a G3X . 

 

Is it just me, or does this look like a giant panel sitting on the tile floor with a red tool chest in the middle between two tall storage bins?

[Davidv]

16 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Is it just me, or does this look like a giant panel sitting on the tile floor with a red tool chest in the middle between two tall storage bins?

Haha I was about to say - he clearly had some aftermarket mods done to his C to make it the size of a 737.

[carusoam]

There are a few M20C forever planes around the MS globe...

It used to be good sport discussing upgrading an M20C with a GPS.

The good ones have Aspens...

I am so looking forward to the after pictures of this panel!

M20C Wide Body... 

Best regards,

-a-

[toto]

I contacted my avionics shop the day I saw the Garmin announcement two months ago. Finally got a real quote today, and it was quite a bit higher than I had expected (in the $55k range for G3X+EIS+GFC500+G5). Mid-30's for all that without the GFC500 (which would still require the G5 for backup attitude).

Is this close to what others are being quoted for a similar setup?  No need to name the shop or reveal any private details - I'm just curious whether this is in the ballpark or way outside it.

[Niko182]

1 hour ago, toto said:

I contacted my avionics shop the day I saw the Garmin announcement two months ago. Finally got a real quote today, and it was quite a bit higher than I had expected (in the $55k range for G3X+EIS+GFC500+G5). Mid-30's for all that without the GFC500 (which would still require the G5 for backup attitude).

Is this close to what others are being quoted for a similar setup?  No need to name the shop or reveal any private details - I'm just curious whether this is in the ballpark or way outside it.

I got quoted 55 for all of that plus a GNX375.

I think for the time being, Ill keep the Stec 30, so no GFC500, and add a gtn750 or 650, and an audio panel.
I'm just trying to figure out if its worthwhile to go with the 750 since one, there will already be
a gnx375, and two, the G3x can control a lot that the gtn's can so is that spare space really needed.

[toto]

3 hours ago, Niko182 said:

I got quoted 55 for all of that plus a GNX375.

I think for the time being, Ill keep the Stec 30, so no GFC500, and add a gtn750 or 650, and an audio panel.
I'm just trying to figure out if its worthwhile to go with the 750 since one, there will already be
a gnx375, and two, the G3x can control a lot that the gtn's can so is that spare space really needed.

I have a 750 and a 345, and am very happy with that combo.  But I really want to ditch the vacuum system, and the G3X was my preferred route. I figured that doing all the panel surgery for a G3X would warrant a discussion about the AP, so now here I am talking about doing both. 

I have another plane that just got a 2xG5+GFC500 for Christmas, and the Garmin AP is pretty damned impressive. It makes the old Century in my Mooney feel like a rope tied to the steering wheel. 

But the G5 install looks cheap to me, with two new LCDs stuck into a plastic panel. And the G3X wasn't certified back when that work was getting done. Now that the G3X is a thing, I'm much more interested in the 10.4" display with EIS than the little G5. 

I got quoted 55 for all of that plus a GNX375.

At least I'm happy to know it's in the ballpark. Thanks for that. 

For now, I'm back to pestering Dynon about the HDX. At least for the weekend. But I honestly can't imagine talking myself into that much money for the G3X. I'd probably rather flip for a current-model G500TXi given the relatively small cost delta. 

 

 

[M20C66Q]

Getting closer!  

[Igor_U]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 11:56 AM, Oldguy said:

Is it just me, or does this look like a giant panel sitting on the tile floor with a red tool chest in the middle between two tall storage bins?

it does look that way!

but it's not. I think red box is smaller cabinet/storage for resistors...

[M20C66Q]

Engine mounted and now the panel install begins! Will report back with panel pics, I think the first Mooney to have the G3X installed  

[ArtVandelay]

Is that soundproofing on the firewall?


Tom