Double Check your Batteries are Secured after Annual

[Guest]

As always another interesting read on Mooneyspace.  I can’t believe that things you guys are putting up with.  Every shop has had issues from time to time, mine included.  Sad that so many of the things you guys are relating can be cured with training and some supervision.

Clarence

[Yetti]

So I will tell on myself.   In 3 annuals 1 inspection cover on the belly I forgot to tighten.   I am probably not as fast as the professionals and costing myself money doing it myself.

Taking the whole plane apart and expecting to get it all back together is a little much.   It would be better to go to twice a year inspections or give the IA discretion on what needs to be focused on.

[Deb]

We can’t say enough good things about Eric and Paul in Willmar, MN (Oasis Aero and Weep No More). They are great guys and know Mooneys very well (they are an MSC). Eric flies our plane with us before thhe start the annual, and again when it’s done (he’s also a CFII). They’ve encouraged us to participate in annuals as much as we’ve wanted, and as a result we’ve learned a lot about our plane. They’ve been on schedule with us and stand behind their work. Even though it’s a long trip for us, we go there because our plane will be as good as it can be when they’re done, and we will have had the opportunity to learn and follow along the way.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Deb
We moved Willmar back to MN; thanks Brian!

[Flymac]

back to the battery topic, if thats now on your personal list to check the tie-downs...I'd add checking the water levels (if not sealed)...that was my learning this year (always heavily involved in owner assisted every year, but always learning more to check, and what to check earliest in)...my battery levels were extremely low, probably added 2oz per compartment...just one more item thats on my personal list to "trust but verify" the shops...easy item to help maintain.

[Hank]

36 minutes ago, Flymac said:

back to the battery topic, if thats now on your personal list to check the tie-downs...I'd add checking the water levels (if not sealed)...that was my learning this year (always heavily involved in owner assisted every year, but always learning more to check, and what to check earliest in)...my battery levels were extremely low, probably added 2oz per compartment...just one more item thats on my personal list to "trust but verify" the shops...easy item to help maintain.

Another great benefit of the Concord--no water to check! Plus longer life, more cranking amps, no leaking acid to corrode the battery tray . . . .    And my prop turns fast enough to taxi.

[Mooney_Allegro]

2 hours ago, Deb said:

We can’t say enough good things about Eric and Paul in Willmar, NC (Oasis Aero and Weep No More). They are great guys and know Mooneys very well (they are an MSC). Eric flies our plane with us before thhe start the annual, and again when it’s done (he’s also a CFII). They’ve encouraged us to participate in annuals as much as we’ve wanted, and as a result we’ve learned a lot about our plane. They’ve been on schedule with us and stand behind their work. Even though it’s a long trip for us, we go there because our plane will be as good as it can be when they’re done, and we will have had the opportunity to learn and follow along the way.

Deb,

I've not had an annual done at Oasis, but I agree with you that Paul is absolutely outstanding to deal with.  His level of communication is steps well above what you would expect.   He's uses all sorts of means of communication....phone call, texts, emails and always happy to help.  He's a rare find in the General Aviation community.   If I ever need a tank reseal done, I'm going to him.  

[flight2000]

3 hours ago, Deb said:

We can’t say enough good things about Eric and Paul in Willmar, NC (Oasis Aero and Weep No More). They are great guys and know Mooneys very well (they are an MSC). Eric flies our plane with us before thhe start the annual, and again when it’s done (he’s also a CFII). They’ve encouraged us to participate in annuals as much as we’ve wanted, and as a result we’ve learned a lot about our plane. They’ve been on schedule with us and stand behind their work. Even though it’s a long trip for us, we go there because our plane will be as good as it can be when they’re done, and we will have had the opportunity to learn and follow along the way.

Did they move or did you mean Willmar, Minnesota? 

Brian

[Steve W]

1 hour ago, Flymac said:

back to the battery topic, if thats now on your personal list to check the tie-downs...I'd add checking the water levels (if not sealed)...that was my learning this year (always heavily involved in owner assisted every year, but always learning more to check, and what to check earliest in)...my battery levels were extremely low, probably added 2oz per compartment...just one more item thats on my personal list to "trust but verify" the shops...easy item to help maintain.

Also, it would be good to ask if your mechanic did a capacity check as part of the annual. Not sure what Mooney says, but the ICA for the Concorde says:

"Initial check at 12 months after initial installation (± 1 month).

b. As long as the capacity is above 90%, subsequent capacity checks every 12
months in service (± 1 month)."

Mine is currently sitting on the floor waiting for its capacity check.

 

[pinerunner]

I've come to take it as SOP that you do the best preflight possible after any maintenance.  To take it for granted that they will hand it back to you with no small issue is not quite reasonable even with very good mechanics. That is especially true if you're hanging around asking  questions which can be distracting.

Preflights really matter.

[Hank]

30 minutes ago, pinerunner said:

I've come to take it as SOP that you do the best preflight possible after any maintenance.  To take it for granted that they will hand it back to you with no small issue is not quite reasonable even with very good mechanics. That is especially true if you're hanging around asking  questions which can be distracting.

Preflights really matter.

I agree! For the record, I rarely hang around asking questions unless I'm also working on the plane. That also lets me make decisions as questions arise, rather than later.

[StevenL757]

5 hours ago, Deb said:

We can’t say enough good things about Eric and Paul in Willmar, MN (Oasis Aero and Weep No More). They are great guys and know Mooneys very well (they are an MSC). Eric flies our plane with us before thhe start the annual, and again when it’s done (he’s also a CFII). They’ve encouraged us to participate in annuals as much as we’ve wanted, and as a result we’ve learned a lot about our plane. They’ve been on schedule with us and stand behind their work. Even though it’s a long trip for us, we go there because our plane will be as good as it can be when they’re done, and we will have had the opportunity to learn and follow along the way.

This is exactly what every owner should expect from their shop - particularly an MSC.  Working every day side-by-side with your mechanic during annual is something not every one of us can - or is able - to do, but when I have a problem, having a background with working on my airplane for several years allows me to make better problem statements and report findings more accurately.  My shop helps me to help myself.  This not only keeps my long-term maintenance costs down, but fosters a wonderful relationship between my mechanic.  After 7 annuals, we're able to read each other extremely well, and he sees my skills and capabilities growing.

[StevenL757]

2 hours ago, Mooney_Allegro said:

Deb,

I've not had an annual done at Oasis, but I agree with you that Paul is absolutely outstanding to deal with.  His level of communication is steps well above what you would expect.   He's uses all sorts of means of communication....phone call, texts, emails and always happy to help.  He's a rare find in the General Aviation community.   If I ever need a tank reseal done, I'm going to him.  

Agree.  He's done a couple of small repairs for me a few years ago and the work was of the highest quality.

[Guest]

I showed this thread to my guys this morning to educate them.  After that I did some research on batteries, and there is disagreement on applicable batteries.  The long body IPC’s show either a Gill G243 or a Concord RG24-15M battery.  Both of these are manifold vented batteries, both have a lid with holes moulded into it for the 2 mounting studs and do not use the aluminum hold down bar.

The Concord application guide says an RG24-15, this battery uses the aluminum hold down bar and does not have holes moulded into the lid.

Interestingly the maintenance manuals do not mention safety wiring the wing nuts in either the removal or installation instructions, not that that removes responsibility for securing the battery, it’s still poor maintenance.

I’m curious to know which batteries were installed in the OP’s airplane.  If they are RG24-15M, I find it hard to imagine that the batteries could jump off the mounting studs.  If they are RG24-15 and the aluminum bar was not installed, I can understand the batteries bouncing around un secured.  

Installed correctly four wing nuts don’t just come loose on their own.

Clarence

 

[mike_elliott]

23 hours ago, Mooney_Allegro said:

I wasn't happy that my turbo was exposed to dust and fiberglass shavings from the Cirrus next to my plane

OMG! having your Mooney next to recycled clorox bottle shavings could cause it to have its gear permanently retracted and lose flap hinge cotter keys!

 

[Yetti]

6 hours ago, pinerunner said:

I've come to take it as SOP that you do the best preflight possible after any maintenance.  To take it for granted that they will hand it back to you with no small issue is not quite reasonable even with very good mechanics. That is especially true if you're hanging around asking  questions which can be distracting.

Preflights really matter.

Then several fast taxis.   Then do a RTS flight above the airport to 7000 or so.  Then come back down and another really good preflight.

[LANCECASPER]

On 3/20/2019 at 4:47 PM, M20Doc said:

four wing nuts don’t just come loose on their own.

Just to clarify . . .  are you referring to the hardware holding down the battery or the maintenance guys in the shop where @Mooney_Allegro went? 

[Steve W]

26 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Just to clarify . . .  are you referring to the hardware holding down the battery or the maintenance guys in the shop where @Mooney_Allegro went? 

 

[Mooney_Allegro]

On 3/20/2019 at 2:47 PM, M20Doc said:

I showed this thread to my guys this morning to educate them.  After that I did some research on batteries, and there is disagreement on applicable batteries.  The long body IPC’s show either a Gill G243 or a Concord RG24-15M battery.  Both of these are manifold vented batteries, both have a lid with holes moulded into it for the 2 mounting studs and do not use the aluminum hold down bar.

The Concord application guide says an RG24-15, this battery uses the aluminum hold down bar and does not have holes moulded into the lid.

Interestingly the maintenance manuals do not mention safety wiring the wing nuts in either the removal or installation instructions, not that that removes responsibility for securing the battery, it’s still poor maintenance.

I’m curious to know which batteries were installed in the OP’s airplane.  If they are RG24-15M, I find it hard to imagine that the batteries could jump off the mounting studs.  If they are RG24-15 and the aluminum bar was not installed, I can understand the batteries bouncing around un secured.  

Installed correctly four wing nuts don’t just come loose on their own.

Clarence

 

Clarence,

My application is using two Concorde RG-25-15 batteries.  The aluminum hold down bars were not installed ontop of either battery, and no safety wire was installed.  The good people at Mooney (Stacey Ellis) in Kerrville, TX got me all fixed up and corrected this maintenance error after 11 months.  This has taught me a big lesson.  Inspect the avionics bay after annuals, and periodically.   

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Mooney_Allegro said:

Clarence,

My application is using two Concorde RG-25-15 batteries.  The aluminum hold down bars were not installed ontop of either battery, and no safety wire was installed.  The good people at Mooney (Stacey Ellis) in Kerrville, TX got me all fixed up and corrected this maintenance error after 11 months.  This has taught me a big lesson.  Inspect the avionics bay after annuals, and periodically.   

That explains it.  You have to wonder what happened to the left over pieces?  I tell my guys it should scare them when they have left over hardware and they better be able to explain to me where it cam from.

Clearly there is a lack of training and supervision at the shop that did this to your airplane.

Clarence

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, Mooney_Allegro said:

Clarence,

My application is using two Concorde RG-25-15 batteries.  

That's looks like a 24-15 battery, which is correct.

[PT20J]

On 3/20/2019 at 3:54 AM, M20Doc said:

As always another interesting read on Mooneyspace.  I can’t believe that things you guys are putting up with.  Every shop has had issues from time to time, mine included.  Sad that so many of the things you guys are relating can be cured with training and some supervision.

My list - all from well respected MSCs over a 25 year period

Perfectly working dual mag failed on L side after 500 hr inspection and impulse coupling work

Missing screw located inside landing gear actuator gearbox after no back spring replacement (I made them take it apart when the mechanic couldn’t find the screw on the bench - it would have eventually jammed the gears)

Hose clamp left off vacuum filter after replacement. 

Spark plug CHT thermocouple for cylinder 3 installed on cylinder 1.

Stripped high rpm stop screw on governor “fixed” by wrapping safety wire around it (held together long enough to get it out of shop).

Replacement exhaust system interferes with cowl flap. 

And, from another non-MSC shop (just to prove it’s not just a MSC problem) : Missing cotter pin on pitch link attach bolt on Schweitzer 300.

I’ve had the best experience with small shops where the owner is actively involved and the mechanic turnover is nil. I’ve found these shops very busy and welcoming my involvement to move things along. Sometimes I catch things they miss, for which they always thank me. But, mostly, they teach me a lot. If a shop doesn’t veiw maintenance as a collaborative enterprise, I don’t want to trust my life to them. 

All that said, I would not hesitate use a MSC for something that requires a lot of Mooney experience such as control rigging. 

Skip

[Shadrach]

52 minutes ago, PT20J said:

My list - all from well respected MSCs over a 25 year period

Perfectly working dual mag failed on L side after 500 hr inspection and impulse coupling work

Missing screw located inside landing gear actuator gearbox after no back spring replacement (I made them take it apart when the mechanic couldn’t find the screw on the bench - it would have eventually jammed the gears)

Hose clamp left off vacuum filter after replacement. 

Spark plug CHT thermocouple for cylinder 3 installed on cylinder 1.

Stripped high rpm stop screw on governor “fixed” by wrapping safety wire around it (held together long enough to get it out of shop).

Replacement exhaust system interferes with cowl flap. 

And, from another non-MSC shop (just to prove it’s not just a MSC problem) : Missing cotter pin on pitch link attach bolt on Schweitzer 300.

I’ve had the best experience with small shops where the owner is actively involved and the mechanic turnover is nil. I’ve found these shops very busy and welcoming my involvement to move things along. Sometimes I catch things they miss, for which they always thank me. But, mostly, they teach me a lot. If a shop doesn’t veiw maintenance as a collaborative enterprise, I don’t want to trust my life to them. 

All that said, I would not hesitate use a MSC for something that requires a lot of Mooney experience such as control rigging. 

Skip

I’ve a similar list...some from MSCs, some from large repair stations. I don’t think it’s endemic to MSCs, I think it just stings the more when you’re expecting and paying for the best only to find that sub par maintenance and no process that discover it...the pilot truly is responsible for verifying airworthiness.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Shadrach

[Guest]

22 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

That's looks like a 24-15 battery, which is correct.

I just rechecked the IPC’s for the long bodies, M20R M20S M20TN M20U and M20V.  All say RG24-15M, the older ones also say Gill G-243, non say RG24-15 and non show use of the aluminum hold down bar.

Clarence

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

I just rechecked the IPC’s for the long bodies, M20R M20S M20TN M20U and M20V.  All say RG24-15M, the older ones also say Gill G-243, non say RG24-15 and non show use of the aluminum hold down bar.

Clarence

I was just going off of what Concorde's site says : http://www.concordebattery.com/aag3.php?id=4132

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I was just going off of what Concorde's site says : http://www.concordebattery.com/aag3.php?id=4132

Ive seen that as well, it conflicts with the IPC's

Clarence