JPI 900 Installation Costs for 76 M20F

[Marauder]

Yea we have done three in the last month.... hmm I haven't noticed a difference in the last 6 months !!!how old was your original unit?

Not that old. I think it was installed in late 2015 or early 2016.


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[jerrodmonaghan]

Soooo how much should I expect to pay? I don’t think the question was actually answered? Lol thanks. 

[Jeev]

7 minutes ago, jerrodmonaghan said:

Soooo how much should I expect to pay? I don’t think the question was actually answered? Lol thanks. 

Between 35-45hrs at whatever the shop rate is is fair / market price. 

[Jeev]

On 3/22/2019 at 5:13 PM, Marauder said:

 

Not that old. I think it was installed in late 2015 or early 2016.


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I will take some pics of the next one we do and follow up and ask my JPI rep if there was a change recently.

[Jeev]

On 3/22/2019 at 5:13 PM, Marauder said:

 

Not that old. I think it was installed in late 2015 or early 2016.


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I spoke with JPI today and yes they did change the screen and the old style is no longer available. 

[JimB]

On 3/22/2019 at 12:20 PM, Jeev said:

I am a little late to this thread but for a EDM900 we charge 35-45hrs plus a few hundred for sending off the fuel and oil hoses to get the transducers fitted.  The variance depends on if we are doing CIES senders and how much we have to move or block in the panel.  Both I and JPI recommend CIES senders they make a huge difference in accuracy especially when your are seeing the exact fuel level on the EDM 900.

I am in the process of looking at engine monitors for my new M20F and I am leaning towards the JPI so I have been reviewing the installation manual. When you say you are sending the off the fuel and oil hoses to get the transducers fit, what do you mean? After reading the manual I figured I would just get a couple of lines the right spec, the right length and mount the transducers to the firewall per the instructions. But let me know if this is more involved or I am missing something. 

Also per the manual it states: "Fuel pressure sensors are only supplied if the POH requires it. If not in the POH Fuel pressure can be supplied at additional cost". Do they ship with the kit since my Mooney M20F POH requires fuel pressure? It appears they are an option on most online ordering sites. 

Thanks

Jim

[Steve W]

3 minutes ago, JimB said:

Also per the manual it states: "Fuel pressure sensors are only supplied if the POH requires it. If not in the POH Fuel pressure can be supplied at additional cost". Do they ship with the kit since my Mooney M20F POH requires fuel pressure? It appears they are an option on most online ordering sites. 

As part of the purchase there is paperwork to be filled out, one of those items is "Is Fuel Pressure Primary" if that is marked then a fuel pressure transducer arrives, if not you need to pay extra. And you send them the POH pages for the limits so they can set those appropriately.

[JimB]

2 minutes ago, Steve W said:

As part of the purchase there is paperwork to be filled out, one of those items is "Is Fuel Pressure Primary" if that is marked then a fuel pressure transducer arrives, if not you need to pay extra. And you send them the POH pages for the limits so they can set those appropriately.

Perfect! Thanks. I saw that in the form but still wasn't sure if I needed to pay extra. 

[Jeev]

29 minutes ago, JimB said:

I am in the process of looking at engine monitors for my new M20F and I am leaning towards the JPI so I have been reviewing the installation manual. When you say you are sending the off the fuel and oil hoses to get the transducers fit, what do you mean? After reading the manual I figured I would just get a couple of lines the right spec, the right length and mount the transducers to the firewall per the instructions. But let me know if this is more involved or I am missing something. 

Also per the manual it states: "Fuel pressure sensors are only supplied if the POH requires it. If not in the POH Fuel pressure can be supplied at additional cost". Do they ship with the kit since my Mooney M20F POH requires fuel pressure? It appears they are an option on most online ordering sites. 

Thanks

Jim

Steve beat me to it and is exactly correct.  As for the transducers it is easy but we usually have custom hoses made / cut for the installs we do as most of the time the existing hoses are not in great shape.  It’s a good time to replace or rework old hoses that are critical to engine operations. 

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

sanjeev@wolfaviationsales.com

[Marauder]

I spoke with JPI today and yes they did change the screen and the old style is no longer available. 

If you speak with them again, which I’m sure you will, you might want to mention the glare concern. I will find one of the screen covers folks have mentioned here, but I think it should come this way.


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[fuellevel]

On 3/22/2019 at 8:46 AM, hypertech said:

Since the thread has drifted to which fuel senders on the JPI.....

I've had several shops tell me that the CiES installation in some Mooney's is an excruciating experience particularly in a long body and straight up advise me not to do it.  In one instance they said they had an Ovation that the install went so sideways they gave up and put the original senders back in.  I don't really know why but I've heard this several times from different shops.  Some say the float arms have to be bent in a tricky way or something.

I was going to upgrade to the CiES when I got my tanks resealed but since so many have told me its more trouble than ti is worth, the plan is just to have the senders overhauled and the calibration redone while the tank work is being done.

So, maybe see what your shop thinks about the senders and what experience they have installing them before deciding which way to have the JPI set up.

It is interesting, we send thousands of senders to OEMs and we never hear another word.   The aftermarket is a different story.   On our way down to the AEA convention in Palm Springs from Bend OR, we stopped along the way to address some installs that needed help.    Fuel senders new or old get the blame as that is the legacy of their operation in aircraft.    You can’t measure fuel in aircraft so senders of any type won’t work even ours.    So frustration sets in.       

Problems with CiES sender installs fall into two camps.  

 One they are not getting between 8 and 32 volts.    So here we have found bad solder connections (cold joints), bad grounds, wires crimped over insulation, connections to voltage sources other than aircraft bus.    Installers will scream we sent them defective parts (our OEM MTTF is in excess of 90,000 hrs)   Rarely if ever is it a bad sender, most likely the sender has insufficient voltage to operate.    And yes I have seen bad installs on both sides of the same aircraft.

Two   The sender arm is physically restrained.   The senders once they have power, are absolute position senders straight up and no joke.   Straight out horizontal  they produce 127 HZ. all of them, every single one..   If they are not changing values as fuel is added,  the sender float or arm is against something in the tank.    So we want to maximize the measurement range so CiES senders have more physical travel than resistive.   If an installer first places the sender in place and bolts it home the sender arm may get wedged against something hard or soft ( Sealant) in the tank.  The action of tightening bolts down can exert a pretty high force.    I get this with top mounted senders on Beech where the float is now forced against the bladder and lower wing skin with the added force of tightened screws.    This can be avoided by first making electrical connection so that we all know they are working (un restrained by the tank) and then carefully physically installing the senders.   We encourage installers to bend the arms to keep the sender arm free through the range of motion.    So why do we have issues - well first the FAA wants us to pattern arm length and float position to a legacy sender assuming the factory had a clue at that time.   Some OEM senders appears to have used what was available vs what was optimal.   As we find these less than ideal situations,  we document and revise supplying this information to the FAA.   For example  we just revised legacy 172, 175 arms.   There were many reasons fuel quantity systems have the reputation they do.   Careless indifference on the part of the manufacturer was one.    Carelessly bolting in a sender that needs to move to operate is another.   

Installers that pay attention to these two points swear by our senders,   Those that don’t and refuse to use basic diagnostic tools, swear at them, and tell us fuel senders will never work in GA aircraft.   Because we are the choice of most OEM aircraft, glacially the former attitude will change over time.   If your avionics shop swears at them,  I know several only a few miles away that will welcome the work.

By the way we fixed the 3 problem aircraft all in less than an hour, just using a Digital multimeter and we have new installer advocates now that their is better understanding of the system and how it interfaces to the aircraft.

Knowing intimately the situation you describe, it might make sense to take a multiple stop trip through Florida.

[gsxrpilot]

The EDM-900 and CiES fuel senders were the first upgrades I made to my 252 when I bought it. And I wouldn't change a thing. They are the most important, most used equipment in my panel.

[JMC]

Had a JPI 900 with new cies fuel senders installed for $3550 + a few hundred for parts. 

[wburger1]

15 hours ago, JMC said:

Had a JPI 900 with new cies fuel senders installed for $3550 + a few hundred for parts. 

Where did you have it installed? 

[Jeev]

2 hours ago, wburger1 said:

Where did you have it installed? 

Yep that’s about right what we end up coming in at around 37hrs at our shop rate.  We have installed cies probes in multiple Mooney’s with no major issues.   We recommend them with every install.