Gross weight for a 1989 J MSE

[dooleypster]

Just bought a 1989 J model.  The serial number puts it in the 2900 gw increase eligibility.  Did they come out of the factory with that GW ability in 1989, or do you have to get the upgrade from Mooney?

[ArtVandelay]

Just bought a 1989 J model.  The serial number puts it in the 2900 gw increase eligibility.  Did they come out of the factory with that GW ability in 1989, or do you have to get the upgrade from Mooney?

Check the POH.


Tom

[smccray]

Look for Mooney Special Letter 92-1.  I don't find it on the Mooney Website anymore.  It's a pretty simple process- re-screen the airspeed indicator and a little paperwork.  If your W&B paperwork shows a gross weight of 2900 lbs it has already been done.  Any service center should be able to do the work.

[Oldguy]

29 minutes ago, smccray said:

Look for Mooney Special Letter 92-1.  I don't find it on the Mooney Website anymore.  It's a pretty simple process- re-screen the airspeed indicator and a little paperwork.  If your W&B paperwork shows a gross weight of 2900 lbs it has already been done.  Any service center should be able to do the work.

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4147179/technical_documents/AFM Supplements/SL92-1_SN24_3057-3078.pdf

On the Mooney website under Support/Technical Publications. Choose M20J under "Select Model" and these are about halfway down the page.

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Oldguy
Added clip and location

[dooleypster]

Thank you one and all for your quick replies.....especially the Oldguy. 

[INA201]

Anyone try to push for 2900 on the older Js?  Is it doable by Mooney?

[carusoam]

INA,

I think the question would be what physically got changed at the serial number where 2900# became allowable...

It is probably dimensions of tubes in the steal frame...(fuzzy memory)

In this case... What is the cost of changing out some tubes..?  

 

That would make an interesting forever-plane story.

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

I believe (2nd hand info), there is 2 main tests:
Landing gear drop test
Climb test

Obviously since the engine and airframe is the same, I would expect climb test to not apply.
Drop test from approximately 18”.
At #764 they changed the gear:
I don’t know why they picked #16xx serial number



Big change seems to be removing squat switch. My main gear was replaced by newer version even though I have an earlier J.



Tom

[carusoam]

The tube change was a lower tube in the steel frame, IIRC...

-a-

[INA201]

The later Js were a little heavier I believe.  My 1978 weighs 1755 FWIW.  I have a 985 useful. What are some of the empty weights of you guys with later Js with the 2900 gross.

[amillet]

1997 J. Empty weight 1957.  Useful load 943.

[ArtVandelay]

1997 J. Empty weight 1957.  Useful load 943.

Where’s the extra weight coming from?

 

The winglets and other 205 mods are just plastic, electric cowl flaps, speed brakes, vacuum backup, and extra avionics may add 50lbs, but not 200.

Tom

[amillet]

24 V battery, electric standby vacuum, BK autopilot system?

[ArtVandelay]

One piece belly pan, foldable rear seats, vertically adjustable fronts, more cushy interiors and insulation, separate mags. It all adds up.  

Jim

We’re talking about 200lbs!

My plane had many of the updates minus the interior.

The separate mags, +3lbs.

The wing tips, thicker glass, wing landing lights, 1-belly, gap seals, etc +25lbs

That’s some heavy seats...

Does if have dual batteries and alternators? 24V?

 

Tom

[INA201]

Dang,  if I had the 2900lb gross this old J would be at 1145 useful.  People really like the separate mags, folding seats etc. etc.  I’m wondering if an 1145 useful load J would be more attractive than all the extras. Nowadays an extra 32 lb backup battery would suffice over an extra alternator or backup vacuum pump(give you a solid 1 hour+). The ANR headsets cover the extra DB of noise. It’s a tough call when the marketing department tells you that your competition has XYZ.  Your engineering department adds XYZ.  

[Oldguy]

On 2/16/2019 at 11:16 AM, carusoam said:

The tube change was a lower tube in the steel frame, IIRC...

-a-

Here you go, Anthony....

[carusoam]

Thanks John!

I’m celebrating my newly found memories!  

That would take an avid Mooniac to want to swap out some tubes to raise their MGTW..!

Best regards,

-a-

[Steve W]

The standard 24V Concorde battery for the M20J is 3lbs lighter than the 12v, the wiring should be lighter or at least no heavier (unless they went to copper from aluminium or some other similar change)

[INA201]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:28 PM, Oldguy said:

Here you go, Anthony....

Is that tube really the reason that 200lbs wasn’t allocated to early Mooney gross weights?  I’m retro frustrated. 

[Oldguy]

26 minutes ago, INA201 said:

Is that tube really the reason that 200lbs wasn’t allocated to early Mooney gross weights?  I’m retro frustrated. 

While I cannot get anyone to say for certain it is, I do find it interesting that serial number is where the heavier gross weight becomes available.

Unless you have a Missile conversion. 

[dooleypster]

This has been a very interesting discussion.....can’t wait to get my hands on the POH to find out what the actual max gross on my serial number is.

[Cruiser]

Your serial number is 24-1684 according to the FAA registration.

Per the SPECIAL LETTER 92-1 

SUBJECT: Mooney M20J 2900 POUND GROSS WEIGHT INCREASE, RETROFIT KITS 
MODEL S/N AFFECTED: M20J, Mooney 205, 201, ATS, MSE; S/N 24-1686 thru 24-3200, 24-3202 thru 24-3217 

looks like you missed the increase by two airframes. 

[ArtVandelay]

Your serial number is 24-1684 according to the FAA registration.
Per the SPECIAL LETTER 92-1 
SUBJECT: Mooney M20J 2900 POUND GROSS WEIGHT INCREASE, RETROFIT KITS 
MODEL S/N AFFECTED: M20J, Mooney 205, 201, ATS, MSE; S/N 24-1686 thru 24-3200, 24-3202 thru 24-3217 
looks like you missed the increase by two airframes. 

Ouch!

Were the Ks and Missles based on pre 1686 airframes?


Tom

[bradp]

Could you use the approved data from the service letter and the approved data from rocket STC to do a 337 for the non SN Moonies?  How cool would that bee.  My UL would go to 1164 and full fuel load would go to 780.  

[INA201]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

Could you use the approved data from the service letter and the approved data from rocket STC to do a 337 for the non SN Moonies?  How cool would that bee.  My UL would go to 1164 and full fuel load would go to 780.  

I am seeing real progress here on this thread! 

6 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Yes, pre 1686 airframes were converted into Missiles with 3200 pound gross weights and I’m pretty sure they didn’t replace this tube.   

Personally, I believe the decision not to apply the 2900 pound gross weight to all Fs and Js was made by the Marketing Department.  Not Engineering.  It was hard enough selling a few new Mooneys in the late 80s as it was.   Who wants to then also have to compete with hundreds of used Fs and Js with 1150 plus pound useful loads?

Jim

Has to be the case! “It’s my 200lbs and I want it now.”  Get outta the way SR22, 182,  and A36.  Not to mention this would seriously improve the value of the aircraft. There is probably a track record showing virtually no airframe failures on middle conversions but I wouldn’t know. Nice thread and it breeds optimism.