M20C panel upgrade?

[tigers2007]

Here is my '64 M20D that is very similar to yours. That center stack gets crowded quickly. I have an Insight G1 GEM on the far right and the Century IIb rectangle control box on the right as well. I'm considering getting an Aspen E5 and dropping the VSI and lower VOR indicator to make room for probably my Dynon D2 (using the empty-hole-clip mount) and moving the Insight closer.  I'd consider the GTN 750 if you can spend the cash to get the faceless transponder and audio panel modules to keep it simple. SL30's can be had for the 2 AMU range. Its a nice and tight NAV/COM with a built in indicator.

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

7 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

Here is my '64 M20D that is very similar to yours. That center stack gets crowded quickly. I have an Insight G1 GEM on the far right and the Century IIb rectangle control box on the right as well. I'm considering getting an Aspen E5 and dropping the VSI and lower VOR indicator to make room for probably my Dynon D2 (using the empty-hole-clip mount) and moving the Insight closer.  I'd consider the GTN 750 if you can spend the cash to get the faceless transponder and audio panel modules to keep it simple. SL30's can be had for the 2 AMU range. Its a nice and tight NAV/COM with a built in indicator.

 

 

I love the carbon fiber panel.

[tigers2007]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

I love the carbon fiber panel.

I got it for free; its just a carbon fiber sticker over the aluminum. Clearly I need an E5 to cover up the exposed aluminum.

[wings_level]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

With the G5 HSI installed, I'll bet you'll never use that second nav head. So I'd probably put it low so that your AI's are level with each other. It makes it nice for cross checking as well as switching to the second AI if the primary fails.

I’ll bet you’re right.  I do like the idea of both AI’s level with each other....ok I think I will move it up and let the nav head sit below.

[gsxrpilot]

3 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

I got it for free; its just a carbon fiber sticker over the aluminum. Clearly I need an E5 to cover up the exposed aluminum.

Before you buy an E5... you might ask your shop to check with Aspen on any refurbished PFD Pro's. I was able to get an MFD1000 refurbished at about a 50% off list (same price as new E5) and then adding a MAX upgrade gets me a basically new unit at about 70% of list.

 

[tigers2007]

4 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Before you buy an E5... you might ask your shop to check with Aspen on any refurbished PFD Pro's. I was able to get an MFD1000 refurbished at about a 50% off list (same price as new E5) and then adding a MAX upgrade gets me a basically new unit at about 70% of list.

 

Good call - I'll look into that. I see that "Advanced Aerotechnologies Group" is offering a price of $5800 installed for the E5. Then add a few grand for an EA100 and ACU.... I'll look into the refurb units so I can save some cash down the road for upgrades. Its very difficult to get hold of a real-world install price for the E5 with EA100 and ACU so far. The anecdotal prices seem to vary greatly.

[wings_level]

I have one avionics shop I have been talking with here in East Tennessee.  Anyone have any other recommendations nearby?

[m20kmooney]

On 2/9/2019 at 6:16 PM, wings_level said:

Good point.  I will be researching those a little more closely.  Guess I just always thought Garmin was the way to go.

Garmin is the way to go! In avionics upgrades it’s akways best to stay with one manufacturer and avoid mixing components. Garmin offers you everything you need without the drama associated with incompatibilities. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by m20kmooney

[tigers2007]

5 minutes ago, m20kmooney said:

Garmin is the way to go!

I always go back and forth on this. It seems that Garmin are jerks and are very hard pressed to allow their systems to play along with anything else non-Garmin - am I right? The folks at L3 don't really care for them...

[m20kmooney]

2 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

I always go back and forth on this. It seems that Garmin are jerks and are very hard pressed to allow their systems to play along with anything else non-Garmin - am I right? The folks at L3 don't really care for them...

As an owner of Garmin equipment all I care about is that they take care of me. And they do. Their equipment is flawless. If it works with others or not I really don’t care honestly! I know owners of Aspens complain about Garmin as do owners of Avidynes. Their energy is misdirected. If they have issues or concerns that Garmin “doesn't play good” with their xyz box take it up with their respective manufacturers. 

[gsxrpilot]

8 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

I always go back and forth on this. It seems that Garmin are jerks and are very hard pressed to allow their systems to play along with anything else non-Garmin - am I right? The folks at L3 don't really care for them...

The more I interact with Aspen and Avidyne, the less I like Garmin.

[tigers2007]

I'm not trying to go off-topic here from Wings_Level's original post but it should be made clear that Garmin seems to go extremely out of their way to make the consumer buy more Garmin. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing for them economically. I own a GTN and it works great. But it won't interact with an Aspen compared to if I had an Avidyne (is my understanding). There are Garmin snobs and then there are "everthing else" or "I-just-want-my-crap-to-work-in-harmony-regardless-of-what-I-buy" snobs like me.

[tigers2007]

@wings_level check this out. Factory refurbished (in 2016) unused GNS-480 for 5 AMU's. Too good to be true? If I could do it over again, I would have saved the $5000 and got that. 5 AMU's for a Ranger/Vintage owner is probably worth more than 5 AMU's for a J-onward owner.

[wings_level]

24 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

@wings_level check this out. Factory refurbished (in 2016) unused GNS-480 for 5 AMU's. Too good to be true? If I could do it over again, I would have saved the $5000 and got that. 5 AMU's for a Ranger/Vintage owner is probably worth more than 5 AMU's for a J-onward owner.

I think there is a post on here talking about the 480.  My understanding is I thought Garmin quit supporting these units?  Jepp still does the database updates I think, but for how long?  My luck I would put one in and then no updates available.  Seems too risky.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, m20kmooney said:

Garmin is the way to go! In avionics upgrades it’s akways best to stay with one manufacturer and avoid mixing components. Garmin offers you everything you need without the drama associated with incompatibilities. 

I have  three Aspens, one Avidyne IFD550, one Garmin GTX345, one King KX155, one KFC 150  and zero drama.

[carusoam]

‘Flawless’ is a pretty strong word... big G has had flaws early on, and very recently...

-a-

[Marauder]

I have three Aspens, an Avidyne IFD550, a Garmin GTX345, a King KX155 and zero drama.

And I have 2 Aspens, a GTN, L-3 Lynx 9000+, L-3 ESI-500, STEC 60-2 and a PS Engineering 450. They all work together. The only limitation I contend with is the Garmin doesn’t allow the FIS-B weather input from the Lynx. I suspect if I had an IFD it would.


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[Marauder]

‘Flawless’ is a pretty strong word... big G has had flaws early on, and very recently...
-a-

You mean like the squelch issue or the infamous 6.50 bug?


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[gsxrpilot]

I will say that my Garmin GDL69a interacts beautifully with my IDF540 to provide SiriusXM radio in the cockpit.  That and the G5 just to sit and look pretty next to the Aspen, are the only Garmin items in my airplane.

[carusoam]

8 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

You mean like the squelch issue or the infamous 6.50 bug?


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Or the blue tooth issue, and early antennae failures wiping out a pair of radios at a time...

how would you like to be waiting endlessly for that WAAS upgrade for a flagship G1000, then finding out the price?

I like my Big G products, but to call them Flawless...

Kind of like expecting BK to deliver a complete product, AND on time....

At least Big G isn’t depending on other companies to build and program ‘their’ boxes...

Best regards,

-a-

[tigers2007]

I think there is a post on here talking about the 480.  My understanding is I thought Garmin quit supporting these units?  Jepp still does the database updates I think, but for how long?  My luck I would put one in and then no updates available.  Seems too risky.

How much flying do you plan on doing? I dumped a GNC-300XL for my GTN and looking back I could have saved like $13,000+ if I would have kept the fully function legacy 300XL. I really haven’t flown that much in the past year as I’ve been swamped with life events (I haven’t even seen my plane since September). The legacy navigators will survive a lot longer than you think. The GNS-480 was dropped but that specific one is in new condition - rare find. I bought my GTN in a similar fashion. It was second hand but new in factory packaging (never installed).

Take a breath and sleep on it before you write the check. 5 or 15 AMU’s is a lot. Just know that I was booted from the CB club for going on a speeding spree(23 AMU? I can’t even remember). I might be crucified if they find out I might get an Aspen...




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[wings_level]

I am thinking the 750 because whether it’s a 430, 530, 650, or 750, the labor cost would probably be about the same.  The cost difference would mainly be in the unit.  If your a gonna spend the same in labor, might as well get the big one.  

[David_H]

1 minute ago, tigers2007 said:

Just know that I was booted from the CB club for going on a speeding spree(23 AMU? I can’t even remember).

Perhaps a recovering panel addict section can be created.

It's going to take some time to get back into the CB club after that spending escapade... and now an Aspen.

[wings_level]

5 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

How much flying do you plan on doing?

I probably got about 20 more years of flying left in me.  Maybe not in this plane, but maybe so.  But who knows what tomorrow holds.  Something could ground me tomorrow.

[tigers2007]

The guys here on MS explained to my that down the road, like you said the installation cost is about the same, BUT the resale value of the GTN or IFD will be leap years more than an old 430/530. That was my breaking point before throwing the towel in and getting the GTN and L3 Lynx. The 430/530 are what? Like 20 years old? I was still a teenager then.

Fast forward 5 or even 10 years and the GNS 430/530 will be the new GNC 155/300XL series of budget radios and the GTN and IFD will be still be prime.


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