Rudder pedal extensions revisited

[salty]

2 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

After my hangar elf extended mine to 3 in., I did not check the angle. But I have noticed no difference in their use. But no one has ever accused me of being sensitive to my planes nuances.

And to that point if I’d gotten in this plane and flown it as it is right now, rather than after flying it for 200 hours, I probably would not notice. 

  But I still think someone drew the diagram wrong. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by salty

[Ragsf15e]

Maybe that’s why I can’t fit in my plane?! I’m 6’3” and barely fit with the seat in the back hole... how hard Is It to tell if there are extensions on there vs what it looked like stock?  Easy to remove??

thanks for posting this!!

[salty]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

Maybe that’s why I can’t fit in my plane?! I’m 6’3” and barely fit with the seat in the back hole... how hard Is It to tell if there are extensions on there vs what it looked like stock?  Easy to remove??

thanks for posting this!!

Easy to remove? Not too bad. Easy to re-install the old pedal? Not if you're not a dwarf. 

It's not really even that easy to see if you're big. You've got to look behind the pedal and see if there is hardware like shown in BrianW's post above or not. It's just the pedal if there is no extension, it's extra pieces of metal if there's an extension.

A good mirror, or maybe taking pics with your camera might help.

Edited October 26, 2018 by salty

[John Mininger]

When I installed mine, I found it much easier to re-install the pedals with the extensions mounted on them, than to take out the pedals in the first place. That bottom Clevis pin right behind the bottom lip of the cast pedal I found very hard to get at.  You will need a mirror and needle nose pliers at least.  

[salty]

5 minutes ago, John Mininger said:

When I installed mine, I found it much easier to re-install the pedals with the extensions mounted on them, than to take out the pedals in the first place. That bottom Clevis pin right behind the bottom lip of the cast pedal I found very hard to get at.  You will need a mirror and needle nose pliers at least.  

And a shoulder that dislocates on command.....

The extension gives you a bit more room to work, so it’s not as bad as working with the standard pedal. I’m small and it hurt like hell to get in there, and took 20-30 tries to get that cotter pin out. 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, salty said:

And a shoulder that dislocates on command.....

The extension gives you a bit more room to work, so it’s not as bad as working with the standard pedal. I’m small and it hurt like hell to get in there, and took 20-30 tries to get that cotter pin out. 

Raise the nose, push full rudder to the left for extra working space on the right pedal. Reverse for the left one.

[Ragsf15e]

My plane is in annual right now and my IA is 6’5”, 230lbs. He was already mad that I was having him put new seals in the parking brake hydro solenoid.  He gonna love me telling him to check for/take out extensions!  But heck, the seats are out and he’s working right above the pedals already...

[John Mininger]

11 hours ago, salty said:

And a shoulder that dislocates on command.....

Ahh, yes, that would also be helpful.

[BrianW]

15 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Maybe that’s why I can’t fit in my plane?! I’m 6’3” and barely fit with the seat in the back hole... how hard Is It to tell if there are extensions on there vs what it looked like stock?  Easy to remove??

thanks for posting this!!

Hi Ragsf15e,

If it turns out you have the 3 inch pedal extensions, and you are going to remove them, I'd be willing to buy them.

Because now that I installed extensions on the copilot side, I'd like to install a set on the pilot side as well.

Thanks,

BrianW

[Amelia]

Sounds like a certain hangar elf could have a nice little side gig manufacturing pedal extensions. Once upon a time I was 5’4” and 110#. Alas, those measurements seem to be shifting, and not in the super-model direction. I love the articulating seat, but if anybody should find me some 3” extensions, I could have more dessert. 

[BrianW]

22 hours ago, salty said:

Mine currently installed as per the mooney diagram are definitely not aligned the same. 

Compare in the pic of mine with one extension installed. Look at the angle of the bottom of the pedal, it’s clearly angled down more than the original. 

Hi John M,

I was wondering if you used the 3" extensions with your stock pedals?

If you did, that would explain why the top of the pedal is angled down more.  Mooney's 3" kit includes new pedals with the holes in different locations from the stock locations (see my photos above to compare side by side stock and kit pedals).

[salty]

I did. I bought the kit from mooney and they didn’t mention a pedal......

[BrianW]

When I bought the Mooney copilot kit, it came with the new pedal all parts and drawings.

The difference in the mounting hole location is 3.600 - 3.370 = 0.23 inches.  Almost a 1/4" lower, which relatively speaking tilts the angle at the top back, as compared to re-using the stock pedal.

[BrianW]

Hi All,

Again, if anyone has the 3" pilot extensions and wants to sell them please let me know. ☺

Thanks,

Brian

[salty]

I got all parts and drawings, which include instructions on how to drill holes in the existing pedals to install. 

 

How long ago ago did you order?

[John Mininger]

2 hours ago, BrianW said:

Hi John M,

I was wondering if you used the 3" extensions with your stock pedals?

If you did, that would explain why the top of the pedal is angled down more.  Mooney's 3" kit includes new pedals with the holes in different locations from the stock locations (see my photos above to compare side by side stock and kit pedals).

Hi Brian,

I just bought the Mooney 3" extensions from Lasar and installed them on the original cast pedals.They were Mooney parts so no STC. I didn't have any other pedals to compare the hole placement to, but when I looked at the extension brackets mounted to the pedals, it looked like it brought the pedal 3" straight back towards the pilot at whatever the original angle was. All the holes were in a straight line.

On a potentially related subject, I remember reading a piece by Kerry McIntyre in the second part of a pre-buy article he wrote in the January 2018 issue of MAPA Log. Here's part of it:

Make sure the shock discs are not cracked and ask how the plane handles during landing. If the pilot that flew it in says it’s a little squirrely there is a good chance the nose gear rake and trail are not correct. On 1960s planes Mooney had a kit to solve this problem and often the extra collar on the nose gear shock disc shaft is missing. On later planes, Mooney drilled the attach bolt hole off‑center on this collar and it’s frequently installed upside down. All of these items can cause the plane to be squirrely at high speeds such as touch down. This may seem like a trivial issue, but when you run off the runway on landing and into the ditch that rips off the landing gear, you will realize this is an important item (especially if you do not have shoulder harness). 

I can tell you that my J was a bit squirrely on landing. It was like that ever since I got it, so I assumed that that's just how it was. That was an incorrect assumption. I took the plane to a MSC to have some very Mooney specific things checked out and sure enough, the collar on the top of my shock disc shaft was on upside down. When the collar was installed right side up, and the nose gear rake went from forward to rearward, my roll out became much more stable. 

I bring this up because if you put 3" extensions on the rudder pedals you're going change to some degree the amount of force needed to move the rudder. If your rollout is a little unstable now, and you use the same mussel memory for steering on the ground during rollout, you could get a surprise. I don't think it's dangerous as long as you're aware that it could be different from what you're used to. 

[GDGR]

Had a local CNC guy make my set. I’m 5’8” and the added distance from the yoke is fabulous. 

[BrianW]

I could build a set but I would prefer the precision of using 4130 structural tube 1.5" x 1" with 0.065 wall and cut the one part out - rather than use sheet and try to make 2 parallel folds. I tried to do the folds and was a 1/32" too wide.  A lot of work to toss out and using tube having the perfect 90 degree bends with a 1.5" width would be infinitely easier.

Unfortunately, all the steel suppliers are out of the 4130 tube till at least November.

I'd sure appreciate it if someone has or knows who currently has stock of a foot of 4130 structural tube 1.5" x 1" with 0.065 wall available.  Otherwise paying more to buy a used set of the 3" pedal extensions is the next best option for me.

Edited October 28, 2018 by BrianW

[DonMuncy]

10 hours ago, BrianW said:

I could build a set but I would prefer the precision of using 4130 structural tube 1.5" x 1" with 0.065 wall and cut the one part out - rather than use sheet and try to make 2 parallel folds. I tried to do the folds and was a 1/32" too wide.  A lot of work to toss out and using tube having the perfect 90 degree bends with a 1.5" width would be infinitely easier.

Unfortunately, all the steel suppliers are out of the 4130 tube till at least November.

I'd sure appreciate it if someone has or knows who currently has stock of a foot of 4130 structural tube 1.5" x 1" with 0.065 wall available.  Otherwise paying more to buy a used set of the 3" pedal extensions is the next best option for me.

Are you really interested in the structural strength of the material.  The strength figures on most any steel tubing is far greater than stress one can generate with foot pressure.

[BrianW]

I agree with you whether it is 4130 or A36, the steel would probably be stronger than my foot could bend.

However, the 4130 material is specified right on the drawing for the pedal extension. And 4130 is significantly stronger than common A36 steel.  So I would have to use thicker A36 steel to be as strong as 4130.  I could calculate it how much thicker it would have to be to be equivalent to the specified part, but why when 4130 could be bought.  

I found a metal supplier that had 4130 1.5"x1"x0.065"wall. Simple-trace-cut-drill-paint and match Mooney spec easily.  I can then proove my owner-made part is the same as Mooney's to my A&P or anyone else.

Otherwise, if I or someone else crashes and the impact bends the pedal, I don't want some investigator saying the owner-made-part may be inferior, and possibly then blame my part for the cause.

[NicoN]

As I am trying to find out more on the pedal extensions?

1. Is there a drawing or pictures of the ORIGINAL setup around?

2. Do the pedal extensions affect the break power you need?

For the 1.5" extensions there seems not to be a difference - but for the 3" ?

 

[steingar]

I must be cognitively challenged.  On my last flight I took off, climbed, and then pushed the seat back a few stops in cruise.  I think I got the idea on this site somewhere.  I really don't use the rudders much in cruise.  On landing I pushed the seat forward again.  What's the deal with these extensions again?  There aren't too many Americans with a shorter inseam than yours truly.

[RocketAviator]

4 hours ago, NicoN said:

As I am trying to find out more on the pedal extensions?

1. Is there a drawing or pictures of the ORIGINAL setup around?

2. Do the pedal extensions affect the break power you need?

For the 1.5" extensions there seems not to be a difference - but for the 3" ?

 

NicoN

1. I have only a rough hand sketch of the pedal drawings, I believe Don Muncy may have a drawing.  I had planed to create a CAD drawing but have never gotten around to it. 

2. I believe there are several images of ORIGINAL /  or installed setup on MS.

I have and have only flown Mooneys with 3" extensions, never the 1.5".  To me I don't believe the pedals affect the break power in any meaningful manner save the added leverage if any and having the pedal closer to your best force position of your leg & foot etc.

Good luck,

[salty]

I have drawings for both size extensions. I think I have the scanned in 8x10 dimensions, if not I can scan them.

[JOHN49]

I just a 1975 m20e and am interested in the 3" pedal extensions.

 Could you point me in the right direction?

John