Seat Cam Chewed Up - Replacement Needed

[Sabremech]

3 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

How about I just find another couple of seats (if and when I need them) and remove and reinstall?  You are a business.  You provide a service.  That you make a profit and can price how you want is obvious.  As a potential customer I also have the right to say: NOPE

I can buy a machined functional firearm for less than that.  I bought custom panel cut outs with N number for less than that.

 

Just to let you know, I’m selling these at my cost. Yes, I’m in business but I also do believe I can help other people when I’m able. 

You’re right about saying nope. Remember, I can say the same thing though. 

Thanks,

David

[N601RX]

 

In a competitive market basic 3 axis CNC work goes for around $60 -70hr. A little more or less depending on the area. This rate would depend on you providing a 3D model of the part and the material. If you don’t provide the model then they are going to either charge separately for it or just include it in the total part cost. For the best price you need to provide the model and then shop it around. If a shop is needing work most will give a competitive quote and quick leadtime for any size job. If their booked up or don’t want small jobs rather than say no they will often just quote long lead times and high prices. 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, N601RX said:

 

In a competitive market basic 3 axis CNC work goes for around $60 -70hr. A little more or less depending on the area. This rate would depend on you providing a 3D model of the part and the material. If you don’t provide the model then they are going to either charge separately for it or just include it in the total part cost. For the best price you need to provide the model and then shop it around. If a shop is needing work most will give a competitive quote and quick leadtime for any size job. If their booked up or don’t want small jobs rather than say no they will often just quote long lead times and high prices. 

Tru dat!! It's my business . . . . .

[N601RX]

The dimensions are guessestimates but the model took less than 3 minutes in Creo.

 

[Guest]

On 5/6/2018 at 3:41 PM, Sabremech said:

Just to let you know, I’m selling these at my cost. Yes, I’m in business but I also do believe I can help other people when I’m able. 

You’re right about saying nope. Remember, I can say the same thing though. 

Thanks,

David

The new parts just arrived, very nice.  Under priced by normal aviation standards.

Clarence

[Ned Gravel]

Thanks Clarence:

I am in Bangkok now, but I hope to fly her to Brantford near the end of next week after I get some more time to fly her myself at home. 

They will have until the 15th of June to complete the installation during my Shanghai, Kyoto, Hong Kong three week whirlwind tour.  I am hoping to be able to pick it up between 15 and 18 June before going to the MAG formation clinic in Danville, VA.

Looks like the annual might have to wait till after Oshkosh again this year.  

Any chance that the seat cams can be replaced during the 480 install?  Seats have to come out for that anyway.  

 

[Hank]

At least our seats are easy to remove, although the left one is more difficult since the seat cushion hits the wall where there is no door to open out of the way (at least on my Mooney).

[Jerry Pressley]

i have some seats disassembled with usable cams

[Sabremech]

42 minutes ago, acpartswhse said:

i have some seats disassembled with usable cams

The proud CB’s should be all over these. 

[Jerry Pressley]

any idea what would be a good price?

 

[goterminal120]

Checks in the mail David,

     Pictures don’t do them justice. Thanks so much.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Ned Gravel said:

Thanks Clarence:

I am in Bangkok now, but I hope to fly her to Brantford near the end of next week after I get some more time to fly her myself at home. 

They will have until the 15th of June to complete the installation during my Shanghai, Kyoto, Hong Kong three week whirlwind tour.  I am hoping to be able to pick it up between 15 and 18 June before going to the MAG formation clinic in Danville, VA.

Looks like the annual might have to wait till after Oshkosh again this year.  

Any chance that the seat cams can be replaced during the 480 install?  Seats have to come out for that anyway.  

 

I’ve already put them in the box with the 480, Josh will be able to install them easily.

Clarence

[xcrmckenna]

Seat cam sets ready to ship. I have a set for Ned and one extra set if anyone needs them.

Quick question before I buy. My cams have a “keeper ring” to stop and he seat back arm from sliding off the cam. That is the part that is broken on my passenger seat. Are your lobes thick enough where I don’t need that ring?



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[Marauder]

25 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

Quick question before I buy. My cams have a “keeper ring” to stop and he seat back arm from sliding off the cam. That is the part that is broken on my passenger seat. Are your lobes thick enough where I don’t need that ring?



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You should see what a fat person does to them.

[HRM]

On 5/7/2018 at 7:25 AM, N601RX said:

The dimensions are guessestimates but the model took less than 3 minutes in Creo.

I think one way to be the ultimate CB would be to pull the old knob off and grind away the cam. Then make a new cam with the CNC, which would just entail cutting the cam out of a piece of plate stock. Drill some holes and then use countersunk screws to affix the knob to the piece. Since the cam takes all the stress, you won't need heavy or deep screws for this. You also keep the original look.

[Yetti]

Um if you can CNC the knob part why not just CNC the cam part onto the knob.  The two screws would eat into the corresponding alum and be so buggerd up on the threads that the screws would never be replaceable. Also since you changed the design you are far outside the "Owner Produced Part" part of the regulations.

[HRM]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

Um if you can CNC the knob part why not just CNC the cam part onto the knob.  The two screws would eat into the corresponding alum and be so buggerd up on the threads that the screws would never be replaceable. Also since you changed the design you are far outside the "Owner Produced Part" part of the regulations.

Well, the CNC might have been a bit much, you could just cut the cam out of stock with a bandsaw. Cutting a shape out of a flat piece of stock is much simpler than machining a complex shape, even with a CNC. The CNC I have is a "Makerspace" type, not industrial.

The screws are just holding the knob to the cam, no stress on them. Besides, you could put some metal glue on before the screws.

Lastly, the notched knobs on the @Sabremech parts are hardly the same as the knurled ones they are replacing, so one is well into a gray area (that no one will dispute) as to 'owner produced'.

[Sabremech]

3 hours ago, HRM said:

Well, the CNC might have been a bit much, you could just cut the cam out of stock with a bandsaw. Cutting a shape out of a flat piece of stock is much simpler than machining a complex shape, even with a CNC. The CNC I have is a "Makerspace" type, not industrial.

The screws are just holding the knob to the cam, no stress on them. Besides, you could put some metal glue on before the screws.

Lastly, the notched knobs on the @Sabremech parts are hardly the same as the knurled ones they are replacing, so one is well into a gray area (that no one will dispute) as to 'owner produced'.

Much less of a gray area than making the part a two piece assembly with screws. My part is identical except for the knurling. I don't believe I'd have a problem presenting my part to the FAA as owner produced.

[Yetti]

Kinda making it harder than should be.  Cut, knurl, drill hole, mill cam.  Clean up with file. Done.

[N601RX]

12 hours ago, Sabremech said:

Much less of a gray area than making the part a two piece assembly with screws. My part is identical except for the knurling. I don't believe I'd have a problem presenting my part to the FAA as owner produced.

How about the ones your taking orders for and shipping directly to mechanics? Could they possibly see this as crossing the line and manufacturing unapproved parts?  A point could be made that the only involvement necessary from the owner is a check for $400. 

[Sabremech]

13 minutes ago, N601RX said:

How about the ones your taking orders for and shipping directly to mechanics? Could they possibly see this as crossing the line and manufacturing unapproved parts?  A point could be made that the only involvement necessary from the owner is a check for $400. 

 I suppose they could, but that assumes you know what my customer and I are doing to satisfy the owner produced parts requirements. 

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, N601RX said:

How about the ones your taking orders for and shipping directly to mechanics? Could they possibly see this as crossing the line and manufacturing unapproved parts?  A point could be made that the only involvement necessary from the owner is a check for $400. 

All the A&P needs to do is send the design in and the regs are complied with.  I believe the A&P you are referencing owns a mooney so he would be the owner.   See how easy it is to comply with the regs.

[N601RX]

Below is from the office of general counsel.  One of the 5 things must happen for it to be a legal owner produced part. Per previous post it is clear that these were ordered in batches from a contractor and then some were inventoried until sold.  Under that secenario it would be physically impossible for any of the following to occur because the parts were already manufactured before the owner became involved.

1. The owner provided the manufacturer with design or performance data from which to manufacture the part. (This may occur, for instance, where a person provided a part to the manufacturer and asked that the part be duplicated.)
2. The owner provided the manufacturer with materials from which to manufacture the part.
3. The owner provided the manufacturer with fabrication processes or assembly methods to be used in the manufacture
of the part. .
4. The owner provided the manufacturer with quality control procedures to be used in the manufacture of the part.
5. The owner supervised the manufacturer of the part.

[xcrmckenna]

If a guy ramp checks me and notices my seat back cams are not original and seizes my plane. He had not gotten laid EVER so he was going to find something to ruin my day anyways.


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[Sabremech]

51 minutes ago, N601RX said:

Below is from the office of general counsel.  One of the 5 things must happen for it to be a legal owner produced part. Per previous post it is clear that these were ordered in batches from a contractor and then some were inventoried until sold.  Under that secenario it would be physically impossible for any of the following to occur because the parts were already manufactured before the owner became involved.

1. The owner provided the manufacturer with design or performance data from which to manufacture the part. (This may occur, for instance, where a person provided a part to the manufacturer and asked that the part be duplicated.)
2. The owner provided the manufacturer with materials from which to manufacture the part.
3. The owner provided the manufacturer with fabrication processes or assembly methods to be used in the manufacture
of the part. .
4. The owner provided the manufacturer with quality control procedures to be used in the manufacture of the part.
5. The owner supervised the manufacturer of the part.

Once again, how do you know if I or my customer didn’t comply with one of the 5 items you listed? Do you know of a conversation or e-mail I may have had with a customer prior to posting on this thread from the start? You’re making assumptions. 

Do you hold PMA? I do.  I bet not many if but a few of us on Mooneyspace hold a PMA. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Sabremech