New (to me) Bravo Shakedown

[kgbpost]

Well I just returned from our first long XC with the whole family in our new Bravo and I couldnt be happier. Mission was FTG-SJN-GYR, GYR-E23-BXK-GYR (just me for night currency), GYR-TUS-GYR, GYR-SEZ-GYR, GYR-FTG. The aircraft performed flawlessly and its opened up a whole new world of travel options for us!

I purchased the aircraft from All American in SAT, and have nothing but good things to say about Jimmy and David and crew. They were honest about the aircraft's history and I looked at it with an open mind and found it to be a potentially great value. There are some benefits to a lousy economy, and bringing a Bravo down into my price range is one of them.

One of the many negatives of the downturn is a lot of really nice airplanes get forgotten and sit unloved. I was carefull about this one, but seeing a HUGE annual from Lone Star Aero in the books last summer, and some hidden gems, like only 300hrs since major by a Super top-notch engine shop in California, I thought I'd put it through a prebuy. I used a local guy in SAT and visited during the inspection to supervise. There were a few minor issues we found, but otherwise it looked like Lone Stars's work the preceding summer had gotten 800MS fit for duty. We turned the prebuy into an annual and flew her home (FTG).

Next stop was Alamosa, Depot Avionics, to install an EDM-830, an Aero-452 CO detector, and to remove some dead weight like the ARGUS 5000, and LORAN. I also removed the ADF, and did an airgizmo panel dock for my backup GPS onboard weather station (GPSMAP 496). We did a little custom panel with 800MS's new name engraved ("the Mooney Magic"...my daughter has exclusive naming rights to any aircraft I might aquire). We lost almost 15lbs so now we're up to 980 usefull! To my suprise all the original avoinics, AP, and radios have performed without any squacks at all!

After putting about ten shakedown hours on her I put together a small squack list. One of which was major and I want to share it here. The biggest mistake I made in the prebuy was not making sure to explicitly state that the mechanic is to FILL the fuel tanks to the top to check for leaks!...I flew it home nonstop and noticed my burn was high (had topped off in SAT). I though 'okay, I'm new to the airplane, I must be imagining things'. Then I flew it again but didn't top off, didn't need to, and everything was fine...the burn was normal?!!?? Then in preperation for a longer trip I topped her off and put it in the hanger for an a.m. mission the next day...I returned to my hanger to find the right tank was missing about 8 gallons!

So it was off to Arapahoe Aero where Scott did surgery on my fuel tank. He found one leak on the outboard end of the tank, so it didnt leak unless that tank tank had more than 36g in it, above that it would leak out rapidly. Otherwise the sealant in the rest of the tank looked fine. We had only 9 hrs into it for the repair, so I was relieved, under 1k AMUs for the repair...I'd feared much worse. AA also cleaned up the rest of my very picky squack list, and we were good to go again. I have heard good things about this shop, and based on my first experience there, I've decided to give them the annuals and non-pilot-MX items. Good competent folks.

So my blood pressure is slowly coming back down now that I have that warm fuzzy feeling again. I'm happy with my bird and confident in its airworthiness. I don't know If I can survive another aircraft aquisition with my sanity though! Such a long and stressfull process to get here.

After playing with the EDM-830 I have a few observations. The leanfind function isn't quite as usefull as you'd think because of the TIT being the limiting factor on the Bravo. I now use the leanfind to find the peak EGT of the leanest cylinder, and note that EGT#. I then note what the TIT is at that setting (trying not to leave it there for but a few seconds). For reference, in the mid teens I start at 32"/2400...and those numbers tend to be about 1550egt/1720TIT at peak EGT on the leanest cylinder. As soon as I've noted these two figures i'm already richening to 100df ROP on the leanest cylinder...which yeilds a TIT right around 1600df, maybe a little less. I then watch the CHTs and if one tops 400df I'll simply richen a smidge or reduce the MP a few tenths of an inch to keep the warmest CHT at or below 400df. This technique yeilds 185-190 kts in the low teens at 19.5-20.5 GPH. Even thought my EGT spread is less than 30df across all cylinders, based on Jimmy's advice and on my own research, I don't feel compelled to even try LOP.

Anyway, forgive the rambling, just sharing my experience. Happy and Safe flying eveyrone. Brian

 

[Cruiser]

sounds like a great airplane with a great name.

Have you started an avionics upgrade or engine overhaul fund yet?

[TLSDriver]

Enjoy your new Bravo!

 

I have had the opposite situation while leaning.  My TIT never moves much over 1350.  Both the onboard TIT gauge and the EDM 700 show almost exactly the same.

Everything else seems to be in line with what you wrote.  I had a 500nm trip yesterday that I did at 15,000.  Fuel flow was 20.5gph and TAS was 193.  Mp was set to 30inches and prop was 2400rpm.  My hottest CHT was 390-395.

I have experimented with LOP and even then the TIT doesnt get very excited.  

I am not an authority by any means.  I bought mine 2 months ago and put 30 hours on it so far.

In any event I hope you have many enjoyable hours with her.

David

[FlyingAggie]

Brian,

Welcome to MooneySpace and Mooney Ownership.  It is good to meet another Colorado Mooney Owner.  I am based out of Jeffco.  BTW, Dave Martinelli, who just bought a 231,  is based at FTG. 

If you have any questions about your Bravo,  a good local source of info is Dave Brury, who has owned Bravos for several  years and bases out of BJC.  He is not on MS, but is on the Mooney Talk List (Dave in Denver).  I can give you his contact info if you PM me. 

I would like to talk to you about your experience with the Depot Avionics in Alamosa.  My next upgrade will be replacing my JPI 700 with an 830C, but that will take some major panel work.  I also want to add the CO monitor in the location to be vacated by the JPI 700.  I also have the GPSMap in a panel dock on the right side of my panel, but because of the view angle from the pilots seat it is not convenient to use.  Where did you mount yours?  I bought a 20 deg tilt wedge, but if installed it blocks my view of the MP/RPM gauges.  Could you post a picture of your panel?

My plane has the Monroy long range tanks giving about 106 gallons and the plane was about 1/2 full at the prebuy/annual last year. It was only when I asked LASAR to transfer fuel from one side to the other to fill the tanks full, did we find leaks toward the top of the tanks.  So I think our experiences provides a lesson for future buyers  doing prebuy inspections ---FILL THE TANKS.   Incidentally, a friend of mine, who owns an F, had Arapahoe Aero fix his tank leaks last year and he has been very pleased with the results.

Lest your thread turns into a ROP/LOP debate, this subject is like religion.   I understand your caution of following the warnings from the MSC experts , but someone will be along here to tell you 100 ROP is the worst place to operate your engine.  My plane came with GAMI's and have no problem operating LOP. After doing the GAMI Lean Test, I know the fuel flow that puts me where I want my richest cylinder on the lean side of peak and is within an acceptable TiT.  I like to keep the TiT below 1600 deg F.  So I set power, pull back mixture to the known fuel flow.     In the mid teens, I see about 160-165 knots at 9.5 to 10 GPH LOP or 175 knots ROP on 12 GPH.

Congratulation on your purchase and for sharing your acquisition experiences.

(PS. You have excellent taste in picking a plane with an excellent paint scheme)

[carqwik]

Congrats!  For TLS Driver - your TIT is too low.  It should run past 1650 to almost 1700 when finding max lean and then should be enriched about 100 degrees...and never more than 60 seconds above 1650 when finding peak.  My bird typically runs around 1600 at proper mixture setting when in cruise at 30/2400.  Btw, TIT probes only last around 400 hours or so before needing replacement...at least that's my experience.

[TLSDriver]

Quote: carqwik

Congrats!  For TLS Driver - your TIT is too low.  It should run past 1650 to almost 1700 when finding max lean and then should be enriched about 100 degrees...and never more than 60 seconds above 1650 when finding peak.  My bird typically runs around 1600 at proper mixture setting when in cruise at 30/2400.  Btw, TIT probes only last around 400 hours or so before needing replacement...at least that's my experience.

[danb35]

Quote: FlyingAggie

[KSMooniac]

100 ROP at 75% power is fine.  More power, more ROP though.

Every owner, especially you turbo guys, should take the Advanced Pilot Seminar...www.advancedpilot.com.  It is THE best money you'll spend as an owner.

[kgbpost]

Quote: FlyingAggie

[kgbpost]

Quote: Cruiser

sounds like a great airplane with a great name.

Have you started an avionics upgrade or engine overhaul fund yet?

[TLSDriver]

Quote: kgbpost

 Thanks. I'm always in a perpetual state of upgrading avionics...I think its a diesase. Active Traffic is at the top of the list. I can see that saving my behind someday.

Engine fund yes. We'll see what time brings. I would consider my first investment in my engine "program" to be installing the EDM-830 straight away. I also installed a Rieff XP preheater on it at the prebuy/annual. Brian

What systems are you looking at for active traffic?

[Txbyker]

Congrats on the buy.  All American is a great outfit.  I too purchased my M20J through Jimmy and David.  They own and also broker planes.  In my case it was a broker deal.  They treat you well and want to make sure you come back to trade or buy another. Many of their customers are repeat buyers.  Both Jimmy and David can hook you up with just about any Mooney resource you need regarding Mooneys.

 

 

[kgbpost]

Quote: TLSDriver

 

[FlyingAggie]

Your right, not sure what I was thinking when I typed that.  Probably wasn't.

I do need to take the APS course as Scott suggested.  APS is bringing the course (with the engine test cell?) to Colorado Springs on 9th/10th August 2011.

Quote: danb35

[KLRDMD]

Quote: kgbpost

 . . . TIT right around 1600df, maybe a little less. This technique yeilds 185-190 kts in the low teens at 19.5-20.5 GPH. 

[TLSDriver]

Quote: KLRDMD

That sounds similar to the numbers I was getting with my Bravo. I decided that in the low teens I would rather have 160 KTAS on 10 GPH 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: TLSDriver

That sounds similar to the numbers I was getting with my Bravo. I decided that in the low teens I would rather have 160 KTAS on 10 GPH 

[RJBrown]

 Congrats on bringing N800MS/N808MS to Colorado. I had that plane under contract in Jan of 09 and sent it to Lone Star for the pre buy. I spent a full day in Texas looking at that plane. Lone Star was great to deal with. I guess that after the seller refused to make it airworthy for me it got fixed right. I wish they had honored the sales contract I had on that plane. My loss will definitely be your gain. I think you have a winner in the Bravo. I am curious what it finally sold for. I was able talk to the person that did the engine, it was an interesting story involving lawers and insurance. It was originally 800MS then MS808 when I looked at it then back to MS800. PM me if interested in my experiance looking at your plane.

Randy

[kgbpost]

Quote: RJBrown

 Congrats on bringing N800MS/N808MS to Colorado. I had that plane under contract in Jan of 09 and sent it to Lone Star for the pre buy. I spent a full day in Texas looking at that plane. Lone Star was great to deal with. I guess that after the seller refused to make it airworthy for me it got fixed right. I wish they had honored the sales contract I had on that plane. My loss will definitely be your gain. I think you have a winner in the Bravo. I am curious what it finally sold for. I was able talk to the person that did the engine, it was an interesting story involving lawers and insurance. It was originally 800MS then MS808 when I looked at it then back to MS800. PM me if interested in my experiance looking at your plane.

Randy