What's the draw to the glass panels?

[Rumblestrip]

No dogs in the fight, so after seven pages this is my takeaway

 

[NJMac]

I think smart money is to just wait out the next couple years. See what shakes out. No matter what co or product, it going to be getting better for us the consumers.

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[Marauder]

I think smart money is to just wait out the next couple years. See what shakes out. No matter what co or product, it going to be getting better for us the consumers.

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I did that in the late 1990s when those panel mounted certified GPS started showing up. I waited all the way until 2012. LOL!


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[NJMac]

I did that in the late 1990s when those panel mounted certified GPS started showing up. I waited all the way until 2012. LOL!


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Im not waiting that long. But ill wait 2 years or so to see how Dynon fairs in their certification quest. My avionics guy pointed out that while i do have a EDM900, we can always sell it if and any other redundancies if/when i move forward with their skyview. In the mean time, im thinking hard about just a d10a for a bit of flair among the steam

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[bcwiseguy]

13 minutes ago, NJMac said:

Im not waiting that long. But ill wait 2 years or so to see how Dynon fairs in their certification quest. My avionics guy pointed out that while i do have a EDM900, we can always sell it if and any other redundancies if/when i move forward with their skyview. In the mean time, im thinking hard about just a d10a for a bit of flair among the steam

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I too am hoping Dynon succeeds in their certification quest. There's nothing I'd like more at this point than seeing a full glass panel option for ~$20k. The current cost of glass panel solutions is insane. Although I am looking to buy a turbo Mooney this year, I am not specifically looking at glass panel equipped aircraft. I can wait a few years to allow the cost of glass panel solutions to come down a bit hopefully and then decide which solution to install myself.

[NJMac]

I too am hoping Dynon succeeds in their certification quest. There's nothing I'd like more at this point than seeing a full glass panel option for ~$20k. The current cost of glass panel solutions is insane. Although I am looking to buy a turbo Mooney this year, I am not specifically looking at glass panel equipped aircraft. I can wait a few years to allow the cost of glass panel solutions to come down a bit hopefully and then decide which solution to install myself.

Wonder if Dynon needs more capital to help in their certification push?

My avionics guy said they are hurting since Garmin moved into their uncertified territory.

Id be willing to put a few to up to maybe 5k down for a position in line, if the cash would help expedite the process.

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[PTK]

21 hours ago, MIm20c said:

You talked to a sales rep, I talked to the person that designs/codes them in person. He told me all I needed to know.  

My uncle worked for GM as a Plant manger. He would find out about new cars 2 weeks after the rest of the world did. 

I fail to see how this makes any sense. When you have significant movement in a fast changing landscape, i.e. Garmin, BK and Dynon announcing brand new equipment grabbing market share in an already limited market how can Aspen afford to keep their mouth shut? They can’t. If they had something new and exciting they would announce it.

I’ll give an example. I’m in communication with BK. Both their sales support team and the regional rep. I’m also in communication with Sandia Aerospace the manufacturer of the KI300. They are all on the same page. All of them. It will ship in February with new software. They had shipped units but instead of having users come back for update they decided to take them back update them and ship all units with new software.

Apparently at Aspen the right hand doesn't know what the left isvsayong or doing! But if they had something new do you think they'd keep it hush hush? I don’t think so.

Edited January 27, 2018 by PTK

[MIm20c]

4 minutes ago, PTK said:

I fail to see how this makes any sense. When you have movement and a fast changing landscape, i.e. Garmin, BK and Dynon announcing brand new equipment grabning market share in an already limited market how can Aspen afford to keep their mouth shut? They can’t. If they had something new and exciting they would announce it. I’m in communication with BK. Both their sales support team and the regional rep. I’m also in communication with Sandia Aerospace. They are all on the same page regarding the KI300. It will ship in February with new software. They had shipped units but instead of having users come back for update they decided to take them back update them and ship all units with new software.

If Aspen has something new do you think they'd keep hush hush? I don’t think so.

You’re being sarcastic right?  Using the roll out joke of the century ki300 as an example?  It’s coming up on its three year anniversary this summer...

[PTK]

8 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

You’re being sarcastic right?  Using the roll out joke of the century ki300 as an example?  It’s coming up on its three year anniversary this summer...

Not being sarcastic at all. I commend BK for offering this option. No one else has addressed this need. Not Garmin and not Aspen. No one.

Edited January 27, 2018 by PTK

[Steve W]

1 hour ago, PTK said:

I fail to see how this makes any sense. When you have significant movement in a fast changing landscape, i.e. Garmin, BK and Dynon announcing brand new equipment grabbing market share in an already limited market how can Aspen afford to keep their mouth shut? They can’t. If they had something new and exciting they would announce it.

The Osborne effect. If you only have a limited product line you don't announce a replacement to your flagship product before the new one is ready to ship otherwise people will entirely stop buying your current product in expectation of the new model.

Not a problem for the KI-300 as it didn't really compete with anything else. Not a problem for Garmin in something like the G500 to the G500 TXI as they have plenty of cashflow so a couple fewer G500 systems sold won't much matter.

[PTK]

3 hours ago, Steve W said:

The Osborne effect. If you only have a limited product line you don't announce a replacement to your flagship product before the new one is ready to ship otherwise people will entirely stop buying your current product in expectation of the new model.

Not a problem for the KI-300 as it didn't really compete with anything else. Not a problem for Garmin in something like the G500 to the G500 TXI as they have plenty of cashflow so a couple fewer G500 systems sold won't much matter.

Ofcourse the problem, and it's a big problem, for Aspen is that a lot more potential customers are ruling them out and going elsewhere. What is the name of that effect? Seems to me if they had something new they’d announce it to retain some of those. Otherwise they lose them forever. This is what BK is doing with their new autopilot retrofit. They announced it and customers know it’s another option for them. I’m afraid Aspen is becoming less and less relevant. They better do something.

Edited January 27, 2018 by PTK

[jetdriven]

Aspen reminds me of the Motorola CEO back in ~06. At an investor conference they asked the CEO what comes after the RAZR and he said “more RAZR’s”. We all know how that turned out. The Aspen screen is a little jazzed up but it it still a 12 year old product.  

[Marauder]

Aspen reminds me of the Motorola CEO back in ~06. At an investor conference they asked the CEO what comes after the RAZR and he said “more RAZR’s”. We all know how that turned out. The Aspen screen is a little jazzed up but it it still a 12 year old product.  

And a Garmin 430 is a 20 year old product and still sells regularly.


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[mike_elliott]

11 hours ago, PTK said:

They had shipped units but instead of having users come back for update they decided to take them back update them and ship all units with new software.

Now thats a tested product!!! 4 years late and well, still no installs...Yawnnnn

[jetdriven]

30 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

And a Garmin 430 is a 20 year old product and still sells regularly.


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Sure till something comes along that’s newer technology for the same price point.  Then they’re dead. And no follow on product. This is very common in aviation. Like King and Narco and Sandel.  Aspen has been selling the same EFD pilot pro for over a decade now. Big screens are coming and the triple aspen is effectively obsolete. 

Avidyne is also hanging their entire  future on a single product. Ok the iFD540, -550 and -440 are different part numbers  but essentially the same things in different flavors. I’m not trying to be a Garmin whore here but they make lots of stuff and it all works together. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by jetdriven

[PTK]

The logic that the GNS is a 20 year old product and still popular does not carry over automatically to an old pfd such as Aspen, imo.

The GNS was the gps/nav/comm powerbox that single handedly and permanently carried the non satellite panels up to GPS and added nav/comm to boot. It is still very popular because older legacy panels are still out there and being updated to GPS. Moving forward 15 years the gps/nav/comm was made even better by adding mfd capability to it. In comes the GTN 750 which is essentially the same logic as the GNS but much more advanced and it adds mfd and touchscreen. 

On the other hand a pfd is a mere display. It's a monitor and monitors need to be updated to keep up. If they are not there will be a mismatch. Similar concept to say using an older vga monitor with a new computer. It can be done but really the best option is to update the monitor as well. Who buys a vga monitor anymore?

Edited January 28, 2018 by PTK

[bradp]

@NJMacto answer your question three pages back ...

The G5’s will in fact work with an IFD 440.  However, the G5 STC is limited to Garmin kit so the install wouldn’t be 337-able in that configuration. 

 

Give me dual AIO (all in one) -boxes...  PFD MFD GPS and Nav/com all in one.  Connections to the other boxes are Ethernet.  Form factor fits a standard six pack.  Installation is a one day affair.  

[PTK]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

@NJMacto answer your question three pages back ...

The G5’s will in fact work with an IFD 440.  However, the G5 STC is limited to Garmin kit so the install wouldn’t be 337-able in that configuration. 

 

Give me dual AOI-boxes...  PFD MFD GPS and Nav/com all in one.  Connections to the other boxes are Ethernet.  Form factor fits a standard six pack.  Installation is a one day affair.  

Brad, what are AOI boxes? 

[bradp]

59 minutes ago, PTK said:

Brad, what are AOI boxes? 

Sorry - AIO.  All in one. 

[N6758N]

On 1/27/2018 at 10:46 AM, PTK said:

 

I’ll give an example. I’m in bed with BK. Both their sales support team and the regional rep.

Fixed it for you Peter!

[Marauder]

On 1/27/2018 at 10:46 AM, PTK said:

I fail to see how this makes any sense. When you have significant movement in a fast changing landscape, i.e. Garmin, BK and Dynon announcing brand new equipment grabbing market share in an already limited market how can Aspen afford to keep their mouth shut? They can’t. If they had something new and exciting they would announce it.

I’ll give an example. I’m in communication with BK. Both their sales support team and the regional rep. I’m also in communication with Sandia Aerospace the manufacturer of the KI300. They are all on the same page. All of them. It will ship in February with new software. They had shipped units but instead of having users come back for update they decided to take them back update them and ship all units with new software.

Apparently at Aspen the right hand doesn't know what the left isvsayong or doing! But if they had something new do you think they'd keep it hush hush? I don’t think so.

Unlike you, I work for a global company that manufactures and sells electronic products. I held roles as a regional sales manager and as a General Manager for a product line. The sales and technical people are the LAST people to find out. Why? Would you want your sales people pitching technology that will never happen or set expectations on delivery dates that can't be met? Those announcements from BK on the release dates for the KI-300 is a prime example of a company trying to hold onto market share about pre-announcing something that was vapor hardware. The other example was Avidyne taking deposits and not introducing their products until years later.

In established big business, sales people may know something is coming out, but what that final product is and what it can do is left for their new product training sessions. There is input provided by customers and field personnel that is used in the product life cycle planning  and for the development of a new product, but the actual finalized product details are closely guarded until an MR is established. 

My favorite product release story was a business that manufactured consumer electronics. I met with their General Manager and was shown their very real but unreleased new technologies. I asked why they weren't released (there were 8 new products). The GM said they were waiting for the release of the latest product from their competition. Once they knew what it was and the technical specs, they would pull one of the 8 new products for release. Of course, that product beat the competition by just enough to make people want the latest technology. Now that is market street smarts.

[pinerunner]

I'm not thinking about springing for a total glass panel, though if John Travolta wants to buy me one as a charity tax writeoff I guess I could go along with that. The Garmin G5 has really got my attention however. I'm very likely to get at least one of those in the next couple of years.

[gsxrpilot]

5 hours ago, Marauder said:

Unlike you, I work for a global company that manufactures and sells electronic products. I held roles as a regional sales manager and as a General Manager for a product line. The sales and technical people are the LAST people to find out. Why? Would you want your sales people pitching technology that will never happen or set expectations on delivery dates that can't be met? Those announcements from BK on the release dates for the KI-300 is a prime example of a company trying to hold onto market share about pre-announcing something that was vapor hardware. The other example was Avidyne taking deposits and not introducing their products until years later.

In established big business, sales people may know something is coming out, but what that final product is and what it can do is left for their new product training sessions. There is input provided by customers and field personnel that is used in the product life cycle planning  and for the development of a new product, but the actual finalized product details are closely guarded until an MR is established. 

My favorite product release story was a business that manufactured consumer electronics. I met with their General Manager and was shown their very real but unreleased new technologies. I asked why they weren't released (there were 8 new products). The GM said they were waiting for the release of the latest product from their competition. Once they knew what it was and the technical specs, they would pull one of the 8 new products for release. Of course, that product beat the competition by just enough to make people want the latest technology. Now that is market street smarts.

I completely agree here as well. I'm the VP of Global Product Strategy for an IT Security vendor. We create Security products and software for large organizations who have sensitive/private/regulated data. Customer facing positions are always the last to know about our true roadmap. We can't slow down sales because of our new stuff that's in the pipe.

[pinerunner]

My perspective has been upgraded a bit. The Aerovonics AV-30 looks like exactly what I've been waiting for. It will fit existing original spots in my panel, replacing old steam gauges with something that has all the information I could wish for without tearing my existing panel up. I'll be waiting for them to get all the certifications needed and if they have troubles will watch for someone else to succeed at what clearly is possible and what I want.