Griggs (O&N) bladder system 10 gallon add on installation

[Bob_Belville]

It was suggested, and appropriately so, that reports on the installation of the add on bladders be on a new thread instead of one on leaking convention tanks.

Here's today's pics showing the sheet metal box that isolates the aileron rods from the new cells. After riveting these assemblies this afternoon, Lynn will install the cells which will involve connecting to the existing cells and reinstalling the overflow/vent tube on the high side of the new cell tomorrow.

[Bob_Belville]

Well, my installer is a deer hunter... but work progresses with the sheet metal guards for the aileron rods installed. I'm impressed with Griggs kit and the engineering of the STC. Really solid, I feel even better about the bladders vs. wet tanks.

[Danb]

Gosh Bob that's a clean inner wing..

[Bob_Belville]

43 minutes ago, Danb said:

Gosh Bob that's a clean inner wing..

Well, it's only 52 years old. I've got shoes older than that.

[Danb]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

Well, it's only 52 years old. I've got shoes older than that.

Unfortunately I do to.

[carusoam]

How does the tank vent get plumbed?

1) From a high corner, external to the tank. like a new Mooney...?

or

2) through a tube, internal to the tank, like a classic Mooney...?

 

Just wondering... 

-a-

[Bob_Belville]

On 12/7/2017 at 5:24 PM, carusoam said:

How does the tank vent get plumbed?

1) From a high corner, external to the tank. like a new Mooney...?

or

2) through a tube, internal to the tank, like a classic Mooney...?

 

Just wondering... 

-a-

The yellow tube in the pic is the vent tube which we removed from existing system - it was in the wing compartment in which the new cell will go - and we'll reinstall it one compartment outboard the wing. (The silver part is an anti ice post that will also be remounted in from of the vent tube, one compartment higher than previous.) 

[jetdriven]

I see you’re drain mast airfoil pieces have rust on them. I’ve redone mine 3 times, the most recent with bead blasting,  a passivating dip in acid, then MIL-33377 epoxy strontium chromate primer then real Imron. In other words, the absolute best shit available on the Planet and a year later, the front edge of them is rusty. 

Has anyone found something to Keep these from rusting ?

[jetdriven]

 They say  cockroaches can survive a nuclear blast, instead you need to use Raid. 

[Bob_Belville]

3 hours ago, jetdriven said:

I see you’re drain mast airfoil pieces have rust on them. I’ve redone mine 3 times, the most recent with bead blasting,  a passivating dip in acid, then MIL-33377 epoxy strontium chromate primer then real Imron. In other words, the absolute best shit available on the Planet and a year later, the front edge of them is rusty. 

Has anyone found something to Keep these from rusting ?

I just cleaned and rattle can painted those at the last annual in Feb. but I did not know I had to go to such lengths.  

[Bob_Belville]

No pics today but Lynn pulled back the existing high side bladders and drilled holes to connect the add on cells. We got a good look at the 20 year old bladders - Lynn said they looked as good as the new ones, no sign of drying out, the rubber seems to be as supple as new.

I talked to JPI this afternoon, they've received the EDM 930 for reconfiguring. New usable fuel will be 64 gallons. Choices. I can cruise at 140-145 ktas on 8 gph so 8 hours w/o reserve, upwards of 1000 nm. Or I'll be able to cruise at 155 ktas at about 10.5 gph ROP and cover 750 nm with IFR reserves. It all DEPENDS.

[Alan Fox]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 5:54 PM, Bob_Belville said:

The yellow tube in the pic is the vent tube which we removed from existing system - it was in the wing compartment in which the new cell will go - and we'll reinstall it one compartment outboard the wing. (The silver part is an anti siphon post that will also be remounted in from of the vent tube, one compartment higher than previous.) 

The silver part is the anti ice mast

[HRM]

On 12/7/2017 at 2:47 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Well, it's only 52 years old. I've got shoes older than that.

What's your S/N Bob. I think your E and The Mistress (848) were line sisters.

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, HRM said:

What's your S/N Bob. I think your E and The Mistress (848) were line sisters.

My '66E is serial# 929, Airworthiness Certificate: 12.3.1965. (Originally registration: N2566W)

[HRM]

9 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

My '66E is serial# 929, Airworthiness Certificate: 12.3.1965. (Originally registration: N2566W)

Mine was 10/9/65, so not 'line' sisters .

 

[Marauder]

No pics today but Lynn pulled back the existing high side bladders and drilled holes to connect the add on cells. We got a good look at the 20 year old bladders - Lynn said they looked as good as the new ones, no sign of drying out, the rubber seems to be as supple as new.
I talked to JPI this afternoon, they've received the EDM 930 for reconfiguring. New usable fuel will be 64 gallons. Choices. I can cruise at 140-145 ktas on 8 gph so 8 hours w/o reserve, upwards of 1000 nm. Or I'll be able to cruise at 155 ktas at about 10.5 gph ROP and cover 750 nm with IFR reserves. It all DEPENDS.

Don’t forget if you tanker up, you’ll be carrying 60 pounds plus the weight of the new bags. Might nip a little off of your speed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[jetdriven]

The best speed mod is more fuel 

[Bob_Belville]

A few more pics. Today was mostly fabricating and fitting the covers for the new holes through which the new cells will be installed. 

Tomorrow after installing foam pads and taping up seams and edges the compartments will be ready for the new cells. We're getting close and I continue to be impressed with the breadth of Lynn's experience. Of tools there is no end.

[Bart Chilcott]

You’re going to love them Bob! I love mine! The extra fuel makes a world of difference.  Like jetdriven said, “the best speed mod is more fuel”. 

[mike_elliott]

On 12/9/2017 at 7:36 PM, jetdriven said:

The best speed mod is more fuel 

..and thats why F's are always faster than stock E's

[1964-M20E]

2 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

..and thats why F's are always faster than stock E's

except when the bladders don't have the extra bags for the extra 10 gallons.

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

The bladders (64 gal. usable) add 37 pounds to the empty weight but everything else being equal the empty weight of an E with bladders should still be lower than a wet wing F. Same engine, same fuel capacity, lower weight... hey @mike_elliott, how can an F possibly keep up with a Super 21? 

[N6758N]

14 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

The bladders (64 gal. usable) add ~40 pounds to the empty weight but everything else being equal the empty weight of an E with bladders should still be lower than a wet wing F. Same engine, same fuel capacity, lower weight... hey @mike_elliott, how can an F possibly keep up with a Super 21? 

Good point Bob, the weight penalty to get to 64 gallons in an E is only like 40ish pounds empty weight, obviously you don't get the extra fuselage though. 

[Bob_Belville]

2 hours ago, N6758N said:

Good point Bob, the weight penalty to get to 64 gallons in an E is only like 40ish pounds empty weight, obviously you don't get the extra fuselage though. 

• I checked the paperwork this morning, the add on 10 gallon cells adds 7.3 pounds to the empty weight.
  • The original 54 gallon bladders added 29.7 so the total difference is 37 pounds. 
• I seldom would have any need for the extra fuselage.
• Particularly since it weighs something and add something to drag.
  • (I drive a Crossfire. 2 seats. 1 more than I need most of the time.
  • And I have a Dakota which I drive less than 2000 miles a year.) 

A vehicle should fit the mission.

[N6758N]

18 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

• I checked the paperwork this morning, the add on 10 gallon cells adds 7.3 pounds to the empty weight.
  • The original 54 gallon bladders added 29.7 so the total difference is 37 pounds. 
• I seldom would have any need for the extra fuselage.
• Particularly since it weighs something and add something to drag.
  • (I drive a Crossfire. 2 seats. 1 more than I need most of the time.
  • And I have a Dakota which I drive less than 2000 miles a year.) 

A vehicle should fit the mission.

As you and others have said, nobody that gets a free/cheap ride in the back of the airplane ever complains about leg room, and I sure as heck won't be sitting in the back of my own airplane. I currently drive an older Rav 4 SUV that gets miserable fuel economy. Someday I would like another Tacoma and a fuel efficient/fun daily driver (I drive 45 minutes each way to work)