AVBLEND

[Guest]

I'm curious if anyone here uses AVBLEND instead of CamGuard?

Clarence

[M20F]

I use Johnsons Baby Oil.  It is soft enough for a baby but tough enough for an IO-360.  

[Browncbr1]

I use av blend, but not as sub for cam guard. I use it to supplement my synthetic blend with more molecules to hold byproducts and keep them suspended to avoid possible sludge issues. I use Exxon elite because it already has additives that achieve similar results to camguard. I also usually fly every week, 2 weeks max

 

 

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[Guitarmaster]

I use Johnsons Baby Oil.  It is soft enough for a baby but tough enough for an IO-360.  

Literally made me LOL!

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[Guest]

44 minutes ago, M20F said:

I use Johnsons Baby Oil.  It is soft enough for a baby but tough enough for an IO-360.  

Does it do anything special for you?

Clarence

[Danb]

Clarence I used avblend for about 15 years or so after joining the forum I switched to camguard. For a couple years I did over kill using both, I didn't want to throw away my remaining avblend. Not to start the fire I saw no difference between the two, although I've read all the info on both including the fact most feel ab is snake oil.

[jetdriven]

Mineral spirits mostly. 

[Andy95W]

It smells a lot different than mineral spirits, so I'm doubtful of that.

Additionally, Aviation Consumer tested it and found it about as effective in corrosion prevention as Camguard.  

There are a number of reports that it has helped prevent valve sticking in Lycoming engines.

I used to use it religiously in my first Mooney 20 years ago.  Now I go back and forth between Camguard and Avblend, preferring Camguard in the summer.

[jetdriven]

Here is the MSDS. >99% mineral oil.   https://www.avlab.com/v/vspfiles/templates/aviationlab/images/forms/avblend.pdf

[Andy95W]

17 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Here is the MSDS. >99% mineral oil.   https://www.avlab.com/v/vspfiles/templates/aviationlab/images/forms/avblend.pdf

Wow, that other 1% must really do something and has a very interesting smell!

Here's what Aviation Consumer said in April, 2011.  Particularly note that Avblend equaled Camguard in their testing, included in the graph at the end:

AvBlend

AvBlend’s pedigree dates back to the late '40s (with roots even earlier) to deal with cold-start scuffing issues in auto racers. The product, called Lenckite, found aviation through Ed Rachanski Sr., a funny car racer and builder who went on to found an FAA Repair station, Blueprint Engines, at Chicago’s Midway Airport.

AvBlend was field tested for FAA approval at Executive Helicopter in Chicago using a Lycoming HIO-360-C1A in an Enstrom helicopter used for traffic work. The testing ended five overhauls later when the cylinders had 7787 hours on them (one finally developed a head crack). They were just then reaching their service limits. On each of the overhauls, parts turned up exceptionally clean, particularly around problematic valve guides. 

What’s called AvBlend in the aviation world is also sold for over-the-road use as ZMax. This product got wound up in an FTC lawsuit over claims made by the company about specific performance gains a consumer would see. The silver lining to that suit, as AvBlend’s Ed Rachanski Jr. will point out, is that the company did $2 million in lab testing, which verified its claims for decreased wear, increased performance, deposit control, corrosion protection and more. 

AvBlend’s test documents show that much of this testing was done with automotive oils in automotive engines, and we can’t say how applicable those findings are to aircraft engines. Looking only at the single-cylinder lab engine (CLR) tests using aircraft oil and ZMax (AvBlend), however, still shows 17-percent reduction in blowby, a six-percent reduction in piston-skirt wear, a two-percent reduction in exhaust-valve wear, and about an 8.5-percent gain in power and efficiency. All were shown to be statistically significant. Lab data also supports wear reduction and corrosion resistance, albeit using automotive oils. In our own corrosion tests, AvBlend did as well as any of the other supplements. 

In our field interviews, the first thing that popped up was deposit control. "An AvBlend engine sticks out like a sore thumb," said Dave Allen of Poplar Grove (one of our top-rated engine shops). "I can tell because they’re so clean." We asked 

This Lycoming IO-720 has 1600 hours on it, all of them with AvBlend. The cylinder was removed for a leaking base O-ring. It was the first major engine work in 13 years.

Allen if he felt there was a higher instance of serviceable parts in these engines. He felt there was probably less wear, but couldn’t say for sure. 

 

American Flyers ran field tests on AvBlend in 1992 hoping to reduce incidents of valve sticking. After a cumulative 375,000 hours, the report was a 75- to 80-percent reduction. Current Director of Maintenance for American Flyers, Rick Farmer, says they still use AvBlend with every oil change, and the valves and engines are currently much cleaner than average. Several owners and Bill Middlebrook of Penn Yan Aero reported AvBlend curing valve issues.

For AvBlend, 29 out of 92 users reported lowered metals in their oil analysis data. Again, we didn’t get enough actual test data from respondents to assess those claims by press time. However, one owner told us he stopped doing oil analysis because "the readings were so low." 

Howard Fenton, who sold his oil analysis business to Blackstone Labs, conducted an informal audit of 50 randomly selected airplanes whose owners reported they started using AvBlend. He didn’t see any significant changes, however, he admits he was only looking at raw data without statistical analysis. 

In our opinion, field evidence for wear reduction is stronger. The company touts Sean Tucker’s six-minute flight with zero oil pressure after a part failure. We spoke directly with Ken Tunnel of Lycon, who does Tucker’s engine work. "From the paperwork and the download [from the engine monitor], I would never have guessed it ran with no oil for six minutes," he told us. "I would have at least thought it would have got the crank." Tunnel treats all new Lycon engines with AvBlend.

Turning back to the opinions of pilots who wrote in, we were unimpressed with comments like, "My engine ran to TBO with no problems." Plenty of engines do that. We were more impressed with: "My 2250-hour cylinders were in good enough condition to warrant a credit against my new cylinders," and, "At 1500 hours the engine was torn down by ECi for prop strike inspection. They called me questioning if this engine really had 1500 hours, thinking it was a misprint." There were several like comments.

Unlike CamGuard’s cocktail approach, AvBlend describes its product as "a tenacious micro-lubricant with reformulated micro-molecules that penetrate, clean and protect metal from the inside out." 

According to Ed Ranchanski, Jr., this means it can weep out and protect metal even when the oil would be burned away by the combustion process, and is why it is effective on valve guides and rings. The logic is that better sealing means both more power and fewer blowby products promoting corrosion. It would be interesting to see if AvBlend-treated engines show less lead in the oil, a byproduct of blowby. AvBlend has lab data showing the stuff penetrates bare metal deeper than oil alone. They also have measurements from AvBlend-treated engines showing a fraction of typical valve-guide wear at overhaul. 

 

[MB65E]

We don't here too much of Exxon elite. Mr.Bruce sure pushed his Rocket to world record heights with the oil +FL400. Kinda makes you feel good it has the same additives already in it as camgard and avblend. 

I've used both and still switch back and forth between changes. I like the protection for the cam I think  camguard gives. I also like the "soaks into metal" and protection in the valve train clauses that AVblend states. 

-Matt

[aaronk25]

Aviation consumer is snake oil??? Maybe Avblend is buying ads? Or a good customer? Like jetdriven posted 99% mineral oil. Add no measurable benefit other than making ones head feel good. And I guess that is a benefit.


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[Andy95W]

29 minutes ago, aaronk25 said:

Aviation consumer is snake oil??? Maybe Avblend is buying ads? Or a good customer? Like jetdriven posted 99% mineral oil. Add no measurable benefit other than making ones head feel good. And I guess that is a benefit.

So, then, pretty much identical to Camguard? Or did you not read far enough to see the statements from Penn Yan and Poplar Grove?  Or the test results graph?

Or are they Alternative Facts? Or Fake News?

Of course most of it is snake oil, just like any oil additive not covered by a TSO.  Ask Peter Garmin what he thinks of Camguard.

[Guest]

I would have thought that at $8.40 per bottle less than Cam Guard it would have had appeal to CB members?  

AvBlend $14.50, CamGuard $22.95, LW16702 $38.50

I've used it in my IO-720 and my IO-320 for more than 5 years on the advise of an operator who ran an IO-720 Aero Commander for more than 8000 hours.

Clarence

[Browncbr1]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

I would have thought that at $8.40 per bottle less than Cam Guard it would have had appeal to CB members?  

AvBlend $14.50, CamGuard $22.95, LW16702 $38.50

I've used it in my IO-720 and my IO-320 for more than 5 years on the advise of an operator who ran an IO-720 Aero Commander for more than 8000 hours.

Clarence

I feel good about AC blend product and price, I've only put about 250 hours on my engine since buying with 440 hours though.  Engine runs perfect and uses a quart every 12 hours or so.   I know 4 engines that have been field overhauled after using avblend with 25 hour oil changes to 3000-3500 hours and the fairy said they looked nearly new inside.  Anecdotal I know.  

[Yetti]

https://www.lycoming.com/content/oil-and-your-engine

So reading this from Lycoming  and realizing that they only approve one product for certain model engines

And learning that AVblend is mineral oil

And learning that mineral oil removes sludge and helps with valves

Should we be putting a little mineral oil in with the W100?

 

 

 

[Yetti]

Seems like 12 oz of mineral oil and 1 teaspoon of marvel mystery oil right before oil change would have things cleaned up inside

MSDS for Mavel Mystery oil

 

Petroleum Distillates (Hydrotreated Heavy 64742-52-5 60-100% Naphthenic) Petroleum Distillates (Stoddar 10-30%

Tricresyl hosphate1330-78-5 0.1-1.0% Ortho Dichlorobenzene 95-50-1 0.1-1.0%

Para Dichlorobenzene 106-46-7 <0.1%

[carusoam]

1) I had difficulty with the phrase 'soaks into metal'.

Really?  If it soaks into the metal, the metal would swell... somewhat uncontrollably...

The places it would soak into would be the intra-granular regions, first. So if the cam releases granual bits into the oil, this could explain why...

who are they over-simplifying this for?

 

2) another thing to keep in mind... strong active chemicals use a carrier to help distribute the active ingredient. An inactive carrier that blends easily with the oil makes it easy to deliver to the right spot without accidently missing the target.  A small spill only loses a small amount of the active ingredient. This methodology is very similar to tablets of medication.  The active ingredient is usually only a few percent of the whole tablet.  The rest is a carrier, a coating, some color and a shape, for various reasons...  

don't fear the 99% carrier too much. But it is adding a pint of carrier that isn't neccesarily helpful to your previous choice of oil...

 

3) select your favorite additive, ask your favorite oil supplier to include it in your favorite oil...?  This way you get the benefits of the right carrier to deliver your active ingredient without any measuring required...

 

4) Marketing...

Without marketing, good products often can't reach all end-users...

With marketing, crappy products often get too far...

With crappy marketing, a good product gets ignored by many end-users...

 

5) it takes an organization like aviation consumer to hopefully demonstrate some value for these products. Did they do an adequate job? 

 

PP observations only.

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

The swelling metal theory explains how my engine got to be 720 cubic inches!

Clarence

[carusoam]

The uncontrolled swelling part would lead to a radial engine forming out front... Go Nine cylinders!  

Best regards,

-a-

[M20F]

34 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

The swelling metal theory explains how my engine got to be 720 cubic inches!

Clarence

If adding AV Blend grew mine to 720 inches I would be buying it by the caseload. 

[FBCK]

Aviation Consumer magazine has no advertisements.

[Yetti]

I submit an oil seasoned cast iron skillet to the "does metal soak up oil?" question

[PTK]

On 5/20/2017 at 7:21 PM, M20Doc said:

I'm curious if anyone here uses AVBLEND instead of CamGuard?

Clarence

No avblend and no scamguard, hmm... sorry camguard! The placebo effect theoretically may work for humans but not for an engine! If a person expects a sugar pill to do something, then it's possible that their body’s physiology can cause effects similar to what a medication might have caused. I just don’t see how an inanimate object, i.e. an engine, can feel or have any expectations. Their gullible, hmm sorry... credulous owner may but that’s another story!

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/how-do-life/201701/marketing-is-evil%3famp

[mike_elliott]

On 5/21/2017 at 12:29 PM, M20Doc said:

The swelling metal theory explains how my engine got to be 720 cubic inches!

Clarence

AVIagra...