Hank Posted December 6, 2016 Report Posted December 6, 2016 Does "Dale" ring any bells? anyone?? 1 Quote
Jerry 5TJ Posted December 6, 2016 Report Posted December 6, 2016 Sure, Dale. Roy Rogers' 3rd wife. Quote
bonal Posted December 6, 2016 Report Posted December 6, 2016 At my age I feel like I'm definitely in a transitional period. But for me it's not just an age thing as quickly as technology is changing I find myself a little behind every time I turn around there is a different way to access and or provide information. Another issue is the amount of stress we as individuals have to deal with we all have done things even taken flights when after we have landed safely and thought about errors we made and perhaps thought it would have been better had we not flown. There are all kinds of bad weather and sometimes the storms are in our minds. As a young man I was terrible at math but having a sort of engineering carrier I have learned to be much better with mental calculations and the like. My wife has taken up a passion for making quilts and she uses me as her human calculator to determine sizing of the required pieces. I find this mental exercise to be helpful And rewarding when I can do the complex math in my head. I suppose as we get older we have to accept giving up things we now take for granted. My aunt may she rest in peace said it best when asked I said getting old and she said "your not as old as your gonna be" 3 Quote
Oldguy Posted December 6, 2016 Report Posted December 6, 2016 4 hours ago, pinerunner said: I wonder about this. I found I had forgotten to put my pitot tube cover back on twice in a row. I'm 60. I think I've always had a tendency to let down a little when a flight was done and not do as good a job putting the plane to bed as I did preflighting it. I'm learning IFR now at a late age and getting clearances straight seems a challenge. I don't think my actual flying skills have declined and they may even be better now that I have my own plane and fly it more regularly. Not a fair comparison to when I was renting. I know there are lots of stories about older people turning the wrong way down a one-way street. One older friend of an uncle of mine ran threw a stop sign in a strange place and got hit and killed. I did my IR at 59, so I have felt your pain. It took me using several different types of books and videos (thanks, John and Martha) to be comfortable with the written. I learned to turn up my headset, and I still use pencil and paper to copy clearances as my iPad and I disagree at times. As I have gotten older, I seem to have become more aware of what I don't know than when I was young. Now I work harder at putting all of the brain cycles to use when I fly in IMC so as to stay ahead of the plane. I am also fortunate to have a wife who enjoys flying anywhere, anytime and in any weather. I have actually had to tell her to stop going "Wahoo!" when we hit a long stretch of turbulence. All this is to say I think as we age we appreciate things differently than we did when we are younger, and expanding our flying capability with an IR is one of the things we can do to stave off growing "old". I don't mind aging, I just don't want to be old. Yeah, my handle is "Oldguy", but that comes from being in a field where many of my peers were half my age and felt they could program circles around me. But they still couldn't do RPG... 2 Quote
Oldguy Posted December 6, 2016 Report Posted December 6, 2016 Doubled up on posting. Killed the second one. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted December 6, 2016 Report Posted December 6, 2016 2 minutes ago, Oldguy said: I did my IR at 59, so I have felt your pain. It took me using several different types of books and videos (thanks, John and Martha) to be comfortable with the written. I learned to turn up my headset, and I still use pencil and paper to copy clearances as my iPad and I disagree at times. As I have gotten older, I seem to have become more aware of what I don't know than when I was young. Now I work harder at putting all of the brain cycles to use when I fly in IMC so as to stay ahead of the plane. I am also fortunate to have a wife who enjoys flying anywhere, anytime and in any weather. I have actually had to tell her to stop going "Wahoo!" when we hit a long stretch of turbulence. All this is to say I think as we age we appreciate things differently than we did when we are younger, and expanding our flying capability with an IR is one of the things we can do to stave off growing "old". I don't mind aging, I just don't want to be old. Yeah, my handle is "Oldguy", but that comes from being in a field where many of my peers were half my age and felt they could program circles around me. But they still couldn't do RPG... I too did my IR in my mid-50's. I also had to endure John and Martha for countless hours, then hit the Gleim. Once I was done with both of them, right back to video one, page 1. I did this until I had the material down flat, which is why I got two wrong on the written. What is RPG? 1 Quote
Oldguy Posted December 6, 2016 Report Posted December 6, 2016 RPG (Report Program Generator) is a high-level programming language (HLL) for business applications. RPG is an IBM proprietary programming language and its later versions are available only on IBM i- or OS/400-based systems. Popular on IBM and DEC systems in the 1970's and 1980's. Where's the emoticon with the white hair and beard? 1 Quote
Hank Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 3 hours ago, Oldguy said: RPG (Report Program Generator) is a high-level programming language (HLL) for business applications. RPG is an IBM proprietary programming language and its later versions are available only on IBM i- or OS/400-based systems. Popular on IBM and DEC systems in the 1970's and 1980's. Where's the emoticon with the white hair and beard? Oh, yes, let's not forget the AS-400 . . . Your young coworkers probably do RPG very well, but to them it's "role playing games." The times do change--I played them with books, paper and dice; the kids now play online RPG computer games . . . Quote
flyboy0681 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Hank said: Oh, yes, let's not forget the AS-400 . . . Your young coworkers probably do RPG very well, but to them it's "role playing games." The times do change--I played them with books, paper and dice; the kids now play online RPG computer games . . . Guess that make me the only Mooney driver who still programs in RPG. Quote
Andy95W Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 On December 4, 2016 at 3:06 PM, cliffy said: As long as I brought it up in another thread I thought I'd start a new one here on the subject. This is mainly for us "older" pilots but could be pertinent to anyone. Do any of you out there monitor your cognitive response as you are getting older? Do you notice the little things that you miss that maybe you wouldn't have missed 10 or 20 yrs ago? Do you notice your cognitive speed decreasing? You don't process incoming information as quickly as you did a decade ago. Just wondering if any out there even think about it? I just wanted to take a moment to thank Cliffy for starting this thread. At (only) 51, even I have started wondering about these very things. I can only imagine how it will occupy my thoughts in the years, and hopefully decades, to come. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 13 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said: As-400 god thats postiviely modern. I first started on a 4331, VM was all the rage as an OS. Dos/VSe, VTaM, VSam, and dont ever forget CICS. We also had the very very first EPos systems put in the UK, i helped put them in. Cat 1 cabling. Great fun. Now we have ipads, and self installing apps. When the app doesnt install you are screwed as you cant access the installer to overirde the error section. As for young people, there were some little ones on the tube yesterday off to the natural history museum. Three of them were sitting exchanging "marvel" cards, ie cigarette cards with characters on them, except these were marvel characters. Things are not new, they just change slightly. Andrew The IBM i (nee AS/400) is completely modern, the platform is still very popular and drives a lot of internet business. CICS isn't dead either. Quote
carusoam Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 Joe, that is even funnier the next day! A couple of other things that come with the aging brain.... 1) difficulty with humor. It takes a lot of cog power to understand some funny things. A mental flexibility kind of challenge. 2) loss of senses. Aroma, hearing, taste, temperature and touch. These are sensitive to aging nerves and connections... keep in mind flavors are a couple of sensors combined. Losing one of the sensor will make things taste different than what you remember they should taste like. Don't blame the chef until you can get your tongue calibrated... The fun part of losing these senses, you can win a spicy food eating contest really easily. Always look for the up-side to any challenge that comes your way! Best regards, -a- Quote
cliffy Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Posted December 7, 2016 Thanks 1395! I started this because of my own interest and observations as to Pt 121 Ops and 60 vs 65 rule. I went out at 60 (14 months before the rule change) and my observations on myself and friends as we went past 65 and then 70. Under 55-60 I didn't see much impact of aging. 60-62 similar observations. Now after 62 things took on a different perspective. Nothing dangerous but in many cases things got missed (little things) or processing took longer. The idea of more age/experience maybe has one sift through more data for the decision I feel MAY have some merit. My observations (and these are just layman observations with some study on the issue, not by any means learned council) that after 62, in SOME persons, the degradation was more pronounced from then on. This leads me to MY postulation that not everyone is a candidate for a busy 121 ride after 62 regardless of the FAA rule. Now, the numbers are few but they are there. Now we get to 65 and beyond. At this I'm in full agreement with the rule for 121. I think the numbers indicate that after that age enough (albeit not the majority) have enough degradation to eliminate them from contention. That being said, after 65 or so doesn't mean 91 flying is not possible IMO. In fact it is probably quite possible, in most cases, to go well beyond 65 in Pt 91 flying. IMO also it is a far different situation being in the left seat of a B757 doing a CATIII at 600 RVR into KLAX than doing a 200/ 1/2 in a Twin Comanche to East Bumscrew, IA. Like I said, these are just my observations and opinions after taking some time and interest in the subject. It would be wise if we all could be cognizant of our performance level as we age after say 65. Some may, some may not. I do, your mileage may vary 3 Quote
flyboy0681 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 9 hours ago, Hyett6420 said: Great stuff, those systems. Loved them. I still love working on it because after 30+ years I know every inch of the system, but I am really, really bored. 1 Quote
Oldguy Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 One of the things I have noticed as I have aged is the amount of fuel I can carry on a max GTOW flight decreases every year. Even doing 1-2 hours of sweat-generating exercise 4-5 days a week and (trying to) manage intake doesn't maintain my weight or waist size like it used to. Where skipping a meal or working really hard on the weekends would drop the 5 lbs. I had picked up the week prior, it now seems to be a month to recover. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 1 minute ago, Oldguy said: One of the things I have noticed as I have aged is the amount of fuel I can carry on a max GTOW flight decreases every year. Even doing 1-2 hours of sweat-generating exercise 4-5 days a week and (trying to) manage intake doesn't maintain my weight or waist size like it used to. Where skipping a meal or working really hard on the weekends would drop the 5 lbs. I had picked up the week prior, it now seems to be a month to recover. Just the opposite here. Not only am I shrinking, but I'm disappearing too. Quote
carusoam Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 The un-Fun part of maintaining the FAA standard pilot weight.... dietary restrictions... Cutting back on the starches, fried foods and preffered beverages isn't very fun or very easy. No amount of exercise can overcome an ordinary side dish of mashed potatoes or French fries or bread and a super gulp soda. I tried to run about ten miles a week without dietary restrictions. I became pretty strong, but didn't lose any weight... This knowledge comes from early school days. But trying to prove it to yourself takes a huge commitment over an extended period of time... Wait til you see how hard it is to not eat everything in the house after a good work-out or simple jog. Doubling up on the veggies instead of rice and potatoes works, but isn't easy... Like everything else that is important, seek professional advice. Strenuous exercise without guidance can lead to worse health effects than being sedentary. Low tech guidance can be found in a few places... Some grocery store chains have a dietician on staff that is available for counseling. Many gyms have trainers that are your age and have fat free lean Bodies..... Having other people in the house with snack foods and yummy beverages can add to the difficulties. Getting to know a lean friend at the gym is helpful for motivation. They put in a lot of effort and don't mind sharing their success stories, usually... For motivation for Mooney pilots to get beach bodies, find the photos of flyboy and friends on the beaches in the Bahamas... PP advice, not a diet and exercise guru... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
Danb Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 Or the opposite occurs, I lost 35 lbs in the last year without trying, pissed off wife who would like to have that problem, after getting my gall bladder ripped out and 7 or 8 diagnostic tests( gotta love obamacare) now ok. I started at 168 which was ok give me your tips for gaining some back. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 Just now, Danb said: Or the opposite occurs, I lost 35 lbs in the last year without trying, pissed off wife who would like to have that problem, after getting my gall bladder ripped out and 7 or 8 diagnostic tests( gotta love obamacare) now ok. I started at 168 which was ok give me your tips for gaining some back. Guess you won't have to worry about Obamacare for much longer. Quote
Danb Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said: Guess you won't have to worry about Obamacare for much longer. Thank god, being in business for myself and having to pay the complete medical burden versus those who get it provided at work it's brutal, maybe 25% of income goes to medical. Many of my clients have let people go, hire part time or sub there work out due to the ACA. Now time will tell Quote
Jsavage3 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) I have found this thread to be one of the more interesting threads as of late...thank you, Cliffy! One thing I'm surprised to have not seen addressed so far is the idea of recency of experience. Our flying skills are a perishable skill; just as in shooting skills or airplane building skills, for example. IFR flying skills are even quicker to deteriorate than basic flying skills as the "CAP check airman" pointed out...although I would interested to know how long it had been, for the unfortunate souls in their mid-70's who he demoted to VFR only flying, since they had last flown actual IFR, or flown at all for that matter...being behind the airplane is usually the result of the lack of recency of experience. I have seen some VERY sharp pilots who were in their much later years; pilots who flew regularly and not just on sunny Sundays. I'd have been more than comfortable to have them take my family up anytime. They were sharp not because they were above average intelligence, excessive life experiences or just better than the average bear; rather, they actually practiced their passion for flying regularly. How often is enough to stay sharp? Well, the FAA has their own ideas written into the regs, but "current per the regs" versus proficient are two totally different ideas. For me, I'd say once a week or so for actual weather flying...that seems to keep me in a mental state of "this is normal" when flying in actual IFR conditions. Otherwise, there seems to be an ever so slight increase in heart rate, blood pressure, anxiety, whatever you wish to call it kind of tangible symptoms that accompany me into the weather. Much the same symptoms I feel when coming back to work after a month of vacation...I feel the "additional pressure" for a leg or two, then it's back in the groove and off to the races we go. At 46 years old and a professional pilot in the biz-jet world, I've been flying professionally since I was 19 years old...it's safe to say that I am at the peak of my flying career (and loving every minute of it) and even now, I never have a PERFECT flight. Do I always strive for one? Of course I do, but I'm also realistic and I understand that we live in a world of sophisticated technology that is outpacing our brains, ATC now knows if we are 0.01 miles off course, altitude off by mere inches it seems or a turn that isn't started precisely where they thought it should be started. When I learned to fly back in the mid-to-late 80's, LORAN was considered a luxury and most of the airplanes I flew didn't have even that. Yes, clock-to-map-to-ground, pilotage, dead reckoning, VOR airways, etc were the name of the game...then along came GPS...and I-pads, nav-data bases, touch screen nav-coms-GPSs, LPV mins, blue tooth everything, etc, etc... It's been a cognitive challenge just to wrap one's mind around all the changes we've all encountered over the last few years of aviation. Fortunately, wings still stall the same way they did for the Wright brothers, KTAS is still KTAS and common sense is still common sense, but we have made huge strides forward in the technology departments...this is good, but it's still been a cognitive challenge; overwhelming even at times. So again, how can I minimize the cognitive challenges that age and chosen profession send my way whether I like it or not? Yep, you guessed it...fly more and especially on those cloudy days!! BTW, I never have a perfect flight in my beloved Mooney either, but my Mooney thinks I fly her perfectly! Update: Yes, I'm required to do work-related simulator training every 6 months at FlightSafety. Begrudgingly, I'd have to say it does probably help... Edited December 8, 2016 by Jsavage3 2 Quote
Yetti Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 I am fine. Wait what were we talking about and who are you people 3 Quote
carusoam Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 JS, Nice overview of your situation! Do you get the opportunity to throw in some simulator time? Since the act of flying knocks the rust off of the latent pilot... how well does the act of simulated flying prepare the latent pilot for the return to the cockpit? I have found the act of practicing or reading about one skill has a transferable nature of refreshing a few other skills. Essentially, getting rusty isn't losing the memory of the process. But, being able to access the memory of the process is slowed down by it's lack of use. Flying a sim may improve the memory retrieval process. It definitely points out some of the other cognitive issues as well. my recent sim experience comes from the MSFS variety. If nothing else, it builds the confidence in skills you have already... Best regards, -a- Quote
Marauder Posted December 7, 2016 Report Posted December 7, 2016 What were we talking about again? I forgot. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote
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