NavWorx Unit Removal AD

[glafaille]

The corporate aircraft I fly was not offered with ADS-B, therefore we must add it as part of an STC.  I believe any relief that may be available would be part of the STC documentation and not the MEL.  

Maybe it could be added to the MEL, however the company that handles our MEL doesn't yet have any ADS-B equipped aircraft of our type in their database.  They did say however, that if we added it to our MEL, we would have to comply with 91.225.

I have yet to talk to anyone at all that can say for certain that we would be legal to launch with an inoperative ADS-B system under any circumstances.  

However, I have heard that a big iron freight hauler has cancelled a number of flights due to malfunctioning ADS-B equipment.  I have also heard that several airlines have requested and received waivers to allow them to operate well past 2020 without installing in all of their aircraft.

Mighty interesting.

[glafaille]

6 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Jeez.  I am a lawyer and stopped reading this thread several exchanges ago. You guys missed your callings! 

It's the FAA lawyers I'm trying to avoid!  They write this stuff and expect us to figure it out or disregard it at our peril.

The unintended consequences of this mandate are enormous. 

[Mooneymite]

Just now, glafaille said:

 I have also heard that several airlines have requested and received waivers to allow them to operate well past 2020 without installing in all of their aircraft.

Mighty interesting.

I also think I saw a provision for some operators to use a non-waas GPS source to supply position data for an "interim" ADS-B installation.  If so, the FAA is getting to be very accomodating.

In our fleet there are probably 150 + aircraft with non-WAAS GPS and no plans (yet) to upgrade to ADS-B. I don't think I'm going to be the only non-ADS.B aircraft come 2020.

[glafaille]

The FAA has been focused on PBN (Performanced Based Navigation) for some time.  As I understand it they are more concerned with how the equipment performs and less concerned with it's TSO status.  Therefore if a legacy TSO C129 GPS meets the standards set forth then it may be allowed to be used.  The problem is that no one is making legacy equipment any more and no one is interested in interfacing old legacy GPS equipment with new ADS-B equipment.  The net result seems to be that only a WAAS GPS will work.

[Mooneymite]

1 minute ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

.......I am keeping an open mind about the whole thing but for the time being see myself letting 2020 come and go before taking action on the "out" side of this equation. 

I don't  have your flexibility since I live under ATL's Class B.  Not many options to avoid the mandate.  

And I have 2 planes to equip.  

Edited October 27, 2016 by Mooneymite

[glafaille]

After 2020, if you don't have ADS-B installed you can still ask for permission to fly in airspace where it's required.  

Personally for my use that means Class C airspace.  I already avoid Clasd B and never fly in Class A and only rarely fly above 10,000 ft.  

I'm betting I can find a suitable airport just outside of Class C or B airspace when I need to go to those places (rarely).  Furthermore, I'm betting I can get permission to enter Class C airspace on those rare times I need to visit that area.

Might be worth the occasional drive from an outlying airport in order to avoid the entire ADS-B boondoggle altogether.

[takair]

23 minutes ago, glafaille said:

The corporate aircraft I fly was not offered with ADS-B, therefore we must add it as part of an STC.  I believe any relief that may be available would be part of the STC documentation and not the MEL.  

Maybe it could be added to the MEL, however the company that handles our MEL doesn't yet have any ADS-B equipped aircraft of our type in their database.  They did say however, that if we added it to our MEL, we would have to comply with 91.225.

I have yet to talk to anyone at all that can say for certain that we would be legal to launch with an inoperative ADS-B system under any circumstances.  

However, I have heard that a big iron freight hauler has cancelled a number of flights due to malfunctioning ADS-B equipment.  I have also heard that several airlines have requested and received waivers to allow them to operate well past 2020 without installing in all of their aircraft.

Mighty interesting.

You could look at the wording in the publicly available MMELs from some OEMs.  The precedent is there and your MEL supplier could likely use that as approval leverage.  I know the OEM I work for has it published by the FAA.  Feel free to PM me if you need specifics.

[glafaille]

1 minute ago, Mooneymite said:

I don't  have your flexibility since I live under ATL's Class B.  Not many options to avoid the mandate.  

And I have 2 planes to equip.  

Mooneymite-

Yes, your situation is quite different, you have little choice except to change airports.  If you own your hangar, you are indeed committed to ADS-B compliance.

I'm glad I don't live in Southern California!

[glafaille]

6 minutes ago, takair said:

You could look at the wording in the publicly available MMELs from some OEMs.  The precedent is there and your MEL supplier could likely use that as approval leverage.  I know the OEM I work for has it published by the FAA.  Feel free to PM me if you need specifics.

Thanks Takair!  I may take you up on that offer soon.

We are in the throes of struggling with deciding how to comply with ADS-B on our corporate aircraft.  It looks like it could be between $100,000 and $300,000!  Even the folks offering the two options are unable to answer many of my questions concerning operating limitations of the aircraft after the installation.

I'm not sure the FAA knows either.  Makes me feel like waiting till this all solidfies in a year or so.  There is so much uncertainty, I find it hard to believe they will actually stick to their schedule.