Right Turn Tendency

[SoMooney]

[Andy95W]

So, how's it fly now?

[N601RX]

The rudder and aileron servo for each side are plumbed in parallel and fed through a common Tee in the baggage compartment.  It would be next to impossible for the rudder to release the vac and the aileron to retain it.

[jetdriven]

So they verified the right flap is +3 degrees but what else did you get for your 300$? 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, SoMooney said:

What does the Hazmat fee coverage? There were no materials to dispose of.

Clarence

[SoMooney]

Ha! I didnt notice they had a environmental fee. That's some BS I'm going to have to call them on.

All I got essentially is to know the surfaces are correct. I did t want to pay them to diagnose the issue.

I also noticed while flight testing that's it's harder to turn left then right. By that I mean the yoke requires more pressure. Even w the PC off. Arent there some springs or something that could be out of adjustment?

Pretty soon I'm just going to bring the right flap down further and if that doesn't fix it just live with it. btw the right flap was already brought down the 3 degrees by us to try and fix it.

[Guest]

The 3 degrees of droop is already outside of factory limit, despite what they are telling you.  Further lowering will add drag and yaw.

Clarencee 

[SoMooney]

It flies the same as it always has. Pulls right. So far I've oh'd the TC, the shutoff valve, tested the servos for leaks, had the surfaces checked (all already within spec). The only thing that made a diff was the right flap going down. annual is this week so we'll see if the gear is partially down. 

[jetdriven]

For 300$ it should have included jacking and retracting the gear to check gear door fit.  It's part of the  equation 

[timpercarpio]

We had a right turning tendency and found the left flap did not fully retract. A small metal tab caught on the trailing edge of the wing. That was pushed down and burnished into place...problem solved.

[flyhigh603]

I just had my plane done on Fri . She would roll to the left at cruise speed . The service manual states that to correct for a wing heavy roll , you don't adjust ailerons !!! If your Mooney has the ailerons out of whack something serious is going on. The manual states that to correct a wing heavy roll tendency you bend the trailing aileron edge down. Don't not bend the edge up under any circumstance . I had my mech do the procedure after my home airport mech had it for days and couldn't figure it out.He bent the edge down maybe a 16th - 1/8 in down about 8 in down the length or trailing aileron edge and viola straight flying plane in under an hr. Make sure your yokes are centered with the board or bar clamped technique ....

[Yetti]

The mechanics on the invoice are doing what you asked not what want.  The request should be.  tends to roll to the right in level Cruise, what would you do to correct that?    Then agree to that plan.  Then execute

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, flyhigh603 said:

I just had my plane done on Fri . She would roll to the left at cruise speed . The service manual states that to correct for a wing heavy roll , you don't adjust ailerons !!! If your Mooney has the ailerons out of whack something serious is going on. The manual states that to correct a wing heavy roll tendency you bend the trailing aileron edge down. Don't not bend the edge up under any circumstance . I had my mech do the procedure after my home airport mech had it for days and couldn't figure it out.He bent the edge down maybe a 16th - 1/8 in down about 8 in down the length or trailing aileron edge and viola straight flying plane in under an hr. Make sure your yokes are centered with the board or bar clamped technique ....

You need to put the travel boards on it so you can be sure the flaps are in spec before bending metal.  

[SoMooney]

2 hours ago, Yetti said:

The mechanics on the invoice are doing what you asked not what want.  The request should be.  tends to roll to the right in level Cruise, what would you do to correct that?    Then agree to that plan.  Then execute

The mechanics in question are not our usual guys, and because of a past experience with them on my C150 I have less faith in them than my usual A&P. I just wanted them to confirm that the control surfaces are correct. We entertained renting the boards but since they had them we preferred to just let them do it vs the learning curve for our usual guy.

However in terms of overall diagnosis and repair I think I can pay the learning curve and the repair time with my existing A&P and it'll be half as much as these guys. As you can see merely checking them cost $300 

[jetdriven]

There is no learning curve with travel boards. You put them on the wing and read.  

[SoMooney]

Since the yoke requires more force when i turn left than right, even when the PC is disengaged. Wouldn't that imply the wing servos are pushing back? And that would go in line with what the MSC said about the wing servos not fully disengaging. I fixed the PC off button in, and adjusted the roll trim and it had no affect on the aircraft. So could they be getting vacuum from somewhere else independent of the TC?

[Guitarmaster]

You could try unplugging the PC from the vacuum manifold and see if you still get the "push back"

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Does this happen while on the ground?

I Get very little resistance moving the yoke left to right.  Both in flight and on the ground...

Noticing a difference in forces between left and right is a sign of something being connected when you are not expecting it...

PP observation, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Guitarmaster]

On August 21, 2016 at 5:18 PM, SoMooney said:

I also noticed while flight testing that's it's harder to turn left then right. By that I mean the yoke requires more pressure. Even w the PC off. Arent there some springs or something that could be out of adjustment?

 

Is it 'harder' to turn or is it not rolling as fast to the left as it does to the right?  

One thought.  How is the shimming on your engine?  Mine was off a bit.  Moving the thrust line slightly made quite a profound difference.  I learned that the engines in the older models were "eyeballed" at the factory.  Of course, it's a factory calibrated eyeball.  

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by Guitarmaster

[SoMooney]

Hi All, I have to resurrect this thread because I still haven't solved the issue. I put in an Accutrak and it works but when the needle of the CDI is right it dives hard to correct it cause of the turning tendency. 

I want to adjust the ailerons. Does anyone have a good work instruction on how to do this? Is it in the belly? I haven't gotten in there yet but my A&P said he took off the outer inspection plates and the push rod was pinned on that end not threaded. 

 

 

[Browncbr1]

Assuming it was installed correctly using shielded wire from the CDI, the accutrak doing anything more than a standard rate turn points to issues of gain or servo vacuum issues.

If I were you, I would center up all your flight surfaces, then go fly with PC disengaged...   hand fly.... 

with roughly equal fuel levels in each tank, if there is a tendency to turn, you should start to do MINOR adjustments to the rudder first.    Keep your wings as clean as possible with ball centered... 

[Cyril Gibb]

17 hours ago, SoMooney said:

I want to adjust the ailerons. Does anyone have a good work instruction on how to do this? Is it in the belly? I haven't gotten in there yet but my A&P said he took off the outer inspection plates and the push rod was pinned on that end not threaded.

Has the rigging ever been done properly?  Previously it seems that rigging was checked, but it's not clear if it was then adjusted to within spec.  The maintenance manual is extremely detailed in the sequence of rigging steps.  Attempting rigging without the boards and the specifications from the maintenance manual ain't the way forward.  Do it ONCE correctly and then it's done.  You might want to rethink if your current A&P is the right person to do that.

[SoMooney]

Thanks for the responses guys

Browncbr - I have flown with it disengaged, it did this before the accutrak, we are certain it is not the servos pushing, but an aerodynamic issue.

Cyril - All surfaces were checked and found to be in spec, however, in flight or on the ground, the ailerons do not appear to be lined up visually. So I'ld like to get the boards myself and check and perhaps adjust separate from the MSC.

I'll post some pics of the ailerons in flight

 

[SoMooney]

These are in flight, you can see one aileron is even and the other is up. This is the setup that the MSC said was in spec. Its this way on the ground too.

[The Other Red Baron]

Is this your mechanic?