Advice Needed - First Flight with baby and spouse

[Seth]

My family is taking a trip for some family events from Maryland to North Carolina.  About a 7 hour drive, but add stops for feeding and we are looking at 10 hours each way.  Or we could fly it in the Missile for 1:40 each way.  The airplane won!

This is going to be a novel.  Please tell me what I need to know.  I have worked out the following:

So, first flight with my baby.  I'd love any suggestions and tricks that worked for you:

Facts:  Our baby is 13 months old tomorrow.  We'll be traveling the weekend of July 16.  Hopefully the morning of Saturday, July 16th and depending on weather (both normal summer heat and convective activity), returning the evening of Sunday, July 17th or the early morning of Monday, July 18th.  

1.  I'm not going to take any chances with weather.  If we need to move around our departure times, so be it.  Backup plan is always landing and driving or driving from the get go.  We can always drive our rental home and I can retrieve the aircraft at a later date.  

2.  Baby ears.  I plan for a gentle climb, and a gentle decent, staying as low as possible that gives me smooth air.  I plan for no more than 500 feet per minute after the initial takeoff for safety both ascending and descending.  I'm planning to note 13 month old baby on board in remarks.  I am going to use both ear plugs and passive baby hearing protection ear cups/ear muffs.   Most likely my baby will sleep most of the flight as many people say due to the vibration and slight oxygen deprivation.

3.  Altitude.:  Normally, I'd climb to 7,000 to 11,000 feet.  However, for this flight, I think it's going to be 4,500 or 6,500 on the way down and 5,500 on the way back.  I intend to go VFR with flight following and will turn the trip IFR should weather dictate, such as a thing cloud layer or light showers.  When I am solo, I tend to fly IFR standard.  However, I have learned, especially near DC and Philly, that sometimes a mix of VFR with flight following and then going IFR makes the most sense for both controllers and pilots.  Getting routed around in a giant U is annoying, however recently I have noticed the controllers much more helpful around DC.

3.  Turbulance.  I plan to fly in the early morning heading down to NC.  I plan to fly late afternoon/early evening or the next early morning for my return.  Weather will of course dictate all of this.  I want this to be a smooth a ride as possible.  As low as possible, but will climb higher as necessary.  

4.  Reservations:  I already have made the rental car and hotel reservations with a refrigerator requested for the hotel room (breast milk) and we'll be bringing our own car seat for the rental car (and for the Mooney!).  I'll make sure the FBO checks to ensure the car is a non-smoking vehicle (I ordered one in a similar size to my wife's car so that we have no issues with all the assorted babe "stuff" that we have to carry along.  

5.  Seating placement:  I'm going to test fit the baby seat in the airplane this week.  Both baby and Mommy will be in the back seat.  My wife would like the babyseat with the child facing the tail of the airplane.  If it works, great.  If not, she'll face forward.  Again, both will be in the back seat.

6.  Packing:  I plan to pack as much portable baby gear and luggage as possible the night before so we can have an easier time in the morning.  Some items will be loaded in the morning.

7.  Pre-flight:  I plan to fuel the aircraft, ensure oil levels are ready, all avionics are up to date, etc . . . the night prior so that the preflight, though still preformed, won't need additional steps taken (like fueling/oil/etc).  We'll check for those but the additional time needed to add fluids and such will not be an issue.

8.  Clean up:  we'll have extra clean up supplies for blowouts, spit up, breast milk spillage, you name it.  

I fully intend for the baby to go to sleep at or soon after engine start or takeoff.  She has a strong stomach and has not gotten motion sick yet on multi hour drives nor at home.  She literally only spit up once during this first year (we have been lucky!).  She loves airplanes as Daddy has shared his passion, and she's visited her Mooney once now, but has never gone up.  We are going to make this the first flight. 

My wife is indeed supportive of the idea and does like the idea of using the Mooney for travel vs driving for many hours on the road.  

What am I leaving out?  Suggestions?

I'll roll with the punches and modify as we go as we are both very adaptive.   Nothing goes as planned, but its good to have a plan A, B, C, D, E, F, G, J, K, L, M, R, S, T, TN, U, and V.

Thanks!

 

-Seth

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[carusoam]

Starting with plan J should be pretty easy.

Plan C, there was no room for backward facing seats.

if you can use the same seat that is used in the car already... I would gamble the baby is asleep before the taxiing begins

 

climb slowly til you get above the turbulence.  East coast, doesn't take very long...

same thing for descent.  Stay above the turbulence as long as possible...

the real fun doesn't begin until they are about two.

Then...

Big ziplock bags for everyone.  Older kids love to see what comes from within (sometimes you have to work with them at their level)

 

remember, everything you put in has the potential to come back out.  Anything milk derived will become curds.  Handing your messy baby over to the grand parents takes a gentle warning...

I loved being a flying parent.  

Take lots of photos.  They change a lot in a short period of time.  It's been about 16 years since my little girl's first flight.  Home for thanksgiving the first time for her.

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Wow Seth! I feel like a delinquent father after reading your plan.

The only things I would add is an egress plan in case you do need to set it down off airport and any survival gear if you carry it (ex. First Aid kit).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Culver LFA]

Whoa...you've done some good planning already.

My family first trip in the Mooney was 3 weeks after bringing it home to Atlanta, we piled in and flew to Plum Island/Boston (2B2).

Things we did that worked:

1 - Purchased children's ear muffs from the local gun range.   A few days before the trip I put my headset on at home to show my daughter, who was 18 months or so at the time, and then popped the headset on her.  Made a game of it, looked in the mirror, funny faces, the whole deal. She wore them on the trip with no problems and still wears them now at 3+

2 - Momma and baby sat in back together.  Baby stays buckled in rear facing child seat until we are cruising and set up, then free to roam about the cabin.  If Momma and baby are breastfeeding, your job is easy and you just need to fly the plane to the best of your ability. Momma will be able to calm baby and nursing clears the ears.  My wife just said as I type this, make sure you bring the nursing pillow.

3 - Do a short test flight with the family beforehand,  just a quick 10-15 minute flight.  It will calm Momma's nerves and help you both be better prepared for departure day.

4 - Have some stops planned if needed for comfort, 2-2.5 hrs is a good time for everyone to stop and stretch.  Check in with your passengers, if Momma says all is well in the back and to keep going (which means baby is sleeping and Momma doesn't have to pee), then you can keep on truckin'!

5 - Take lots of pictures, there will be some really great family memories to look back on.

That's probably enough, have fun!

 

[bonal]

Culver number three seems like a real good idea. If there is time it would give a lot of insight. Good luck and have a great trip

[MB65E]

Small collapsible cooler. Sun shades for the little one to prop up in the rear cabin. Sunglasses if she'll ware them. My girls have these "Babyaviator" sunglasses they ware. They still ware them a 6&3. Check your rear seat mic's/headset ops... My rear mic's were inop on our first flight. 12v power for your wife's goodies if needed. 

Have fun enjoy!!

-Matt

[kmyfm20s]

If it's just the 3 of you take out the front passenger seat. In the Mooney catalogue they called the executive seating configuration. It will make it easier to get the car seat in and out and give your wife some leg room and a work area for diaper changes. 

[carusoam]

A good WnB update would be perfect for this flight. 

Best regards,

-a-

[helitim]

My daughters first flight was at 5 weeks of age.  We used a very soft, large towel and gently wrapped over her head to cover the ears then placed the headset over to hold the towel.  The combination stabilized the head to minimize movement until she went to sleep which was probably 60 seconds after lift off.  A pacifier can be used for climb and descent (if awake). It stimulates the suck reflex which helps equalize the inner ear.  Sometimes even when asleep, just placing a pacifier or fingertip in the mouth stimulates this reflex.

Sounds like you have a good plan going there.

Tim

[Brian Scranton]

You have thought about a lot. I'd say a pacifier for the little one or bottle to help promote ear clearing and some gum for your gal...and a little batter powered hand held fan that can keep the little one cool during taxi/runup. It gets hot in there for those 10 mins. Love the idea of a 20-30 min test flight as well to get them both acclimated. 

[Becca]

Wow.  That list is excessively cautious. 

What's wrong with altitude?  (Might actually encourage sleeping to be up higher, plus you want to take advantage of tailwinds to make the flight as short as possible.)  I get its hard to clear babies ears, so you can see as you go, but I wouldn't limit yourself.  Have you not taken the child on an airliner before?  There's plenty of well traveled babies in cabins pressurized to 10,000 feet.

Also what's wrong with a car that's been smoked in?  (besides that it stinks, and no one likes it, but that's not a baby-unique issue).

You keep calling this 13 month old a "baby", but this is a walking, talking toddler.  Perhaps something to entertain the child in flight would also be useful, and a pre-flight wear-out plan (e.g. playground, etc.) to get out some restless energy.  But if she's fine in a car for 1.5 hrs, it shouldn't be a problem in an airplane.

If you are that particularly, something is bound to go wrong and stress you and your wife out.  So my first suggestion is don't stress.  My second suggestion is to go watch these Luvs commercials regarding first vs. second children:

 

 

[Zwaustin]

That is quite the plan. I have flown with my 15 month old since she was 4 months old so take it for what it is worth. She has since been on 8 legs to Arizona from Texas and countless trips around the state of Texas in the last 11 months. We have been as high as 17,000 feet (short duration and one time only) with no issues although I typically stay lower with her on board depending on weather and winds. She wears a child cannula like a champ for limited time, loves to get out of her seat for a few minutes and hold the yoke sitting in her moms lap and often sleeps well en route. For hearing protection we have a pair of "Baby Banz" which seem to work great and cost about 30 bucks. Every now and again she will get grumpy and pull them off but other than that they work well. Our longest flight with her was about 5.5 hours one way with no issues. I try to keep my descents to about 500 fpm and don't recall her crying on a decent other than her being hungry or tired of being in her seat. We have had the breast pumps going as well and plenty of diaper changes with no issues either. I recommend you go up and try it out, send me a pm if you have a specific question and I can share my experience on the issue. Lastly, stay calm, my autopilot went crazy on me in solid IMC due to the Ki256 AI/FD needing overhaul and I do remember getting a little edgy after hand flying the rest of the way due to the poor weather and trying to keep Ashley relaxed. I have found that when I am calm Momma is calm and when we are both calm the baby is a non issue. Sure beats taking her on a commercial flight:)

[Amelia]

That is a great plan for a first child. With a second, the list gets a lot shorter. Sort of akin to the old saying that no battle plan survives first engagement with the enemy. You learn that most of the kiddie cartage is a burden rather than a boon. You pare the equipment list to bare necessities. And then reduce that by half. And unless you really get a kick out of complex logistics, you'll find spur-of-the-moment trips, (hey, it's a gorgeous beach weekend) are worth considering. Does wonders for your flexibility and improvisation skills. Hang loose. Be safe, but don't get all wrapped around the axle with details. If you need it, and you are traveling in the lower 49, I guarantee it is for sale wherever you are going, but you probably won't need it, Kids are great pax. They sleep until they are old enough to look out the window and see wondrous things. My not-quite-two grandson and I were flying from his old home in Lansing to his new home near St. Louis. A while after leveling off, there was a squealing, "Gramagramagrama, YOOK! Baff!!!" Smallest boy was beside himself with excitement to see the expanse of deep blue Lake Michigan before him, and used the only word in his limited vocabulary to describe that much water all in one place. Bath! 

 

[Amelia]

PS... Who needs a pack-n-play or a bulky stroller? Our infants were known to be bedded down in a hotel bureau drawer. When they got too big for that, bedspreads on the carpet, bounded by pillows worked fine. We used snuggly carriers for tiny ones, and collapsible backpacks, so happy toddlers could see where they were going. Dad's shoulders provided the best ride ever, until they were big enough to keep up. Then, (y'all can hate me now) we found a harness and leash -designed for small bipeds, gave a fast and curious little guy much of the freedom he craved without the "oh, where is he now" parental anxiety. Anyway, all that fit in the C-172, then the Mooney without any trouble.

[dlthig]

Just now, Amelia said:

PS... Who needs a pack-n-play or a bulky stroller? Our infants were known to be bedded down in a hotel bureau drawer. When they got too big for that, bedspreads on the carpet, bounded by pillows worked fine. We used snuggly carriers for tiny ones, and collapsible backpacks, so happy toddlers could see where they were going. Dad's shoulders provided the best ride ever, until they were big enough to keep up. Then, (y'all can hate me now) we found a harness and leash -designed for small bipeds, gave a fast and curious little guy much of the freedom he craved without the "oh, where is he now" parental anxiety. Anyway, all that fit in the Mooney without any trouble.

Cousin Amelia, your clarity of thought and practicality greatly exceeds that of most mothers these days. What a difference a few years make. Of course, as far as she knows, my wife is very practical.

 

 

[GeorgePerry]

On 7/4/2016 at 10:43 PM, Seth said:

My family is taking a trip for some family events from Maryland to North Carolina.  About a 7 hour drive, but add stops for feeding and we are looking at 10 hours each way.  Or we could fly it in the Missile for 1:40 each way.  The airplane won!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seth

Give me a call.  I've been flying my tribe for many years and deal with all of the issues you raised regularly.

George

[Amelia]

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[Culver LFA]

On 7/5/2016 at 4:29 AM, kmyfm20s said:

If it's just the 3 of you take out the front passenger seat. In the Mooney catalogue they called the executive seating configuration. It will make it easier to get the car seat in and out and give your wife some leg room and a work area for diaper changes. 

I took my seats out this annual, reinstalled the left seat but not the right at this point.  Is it 'legal' to fly this way, or am I asking too many questions?  There sure is a lot of room without that right front seat installed

[carusoam]

Pseudo answer...

It is a weight and balance challenge not covered in the POH...

PP thoughts, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[AaronDC8402]

I second the idea of bringing some child entertainment of some sort. My toddler son has flown with us a handful of times (previously in a 182RG and now in the Mooney). Of all the flights, he has slept only one leg of one flight. Left with nothing else to do, it's a struggle to keep the hearing protection on. Keep his mind off of it, and he doesn't seem to mind.

When he was an infant, I worried more about shallow climbs and descents. Once he turned 1, I started getting a little more relaxed about it. At 18 months, he didn't seem bothered at all. He's nearly two now, and his excitement at the sight of airplanes is unbelievable. I guess he's hooked.

Getting the bulky car seat into the Mooney is a little more difficult than the 182. The back seat of the Mooney is a lot more comfortable and the WnB envelope is more accommodating, so Mama can sit with him in the back.

[Seth]

Britax Marathon Clicktight fits perfectly behind the pilot seat and since I'm only 5'6", the seating position is all the way forward and doesn't bother or compromise me (tested it out last weekend).  

The "cowmouflage" was a retuned unopened special order for 30% off!  Certified member of the CSOB club.  Maybe not as drastic as others as I do own an airplane and did buy the child seat new, but got way below retail.  

-Seth

 

[mooniac15u]

Just now, Seth said:

Britax Marathon Clicktight fits perfectly behind the pilot seat and since I'm only 5'6", the seating position is all the way forward and doesn't bother or compromise me (tested it out last weekend).  

The "cowmouflage" was a retuned unopened special order for 30% off!  Certified member of the CSOB club.  Maybe not as drastic as others as I do own an airplane and did buy the child seat new, but got way below retail.  

-Seth

We used a Britax in our M20D. We finally grew out of all car seats and booster seats but our 20 lb toddler is now a 5'7" 100 lb tween. She and her little brother don't need help from Mom these days but they are eating into my maximum fuel load. 

[Seth]

3 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

We used a Britax in our M20D. We finally grew out of all car seats and booster seats but our 20 lb toddler is now a 5'7" 100 lb tween. She and her little brother don't need help from Mom these days but they are eating into my maximum fuel load. 

At that point between number of souls as well, we may have to add a share of a larger aircraft, preferably pressurized, for longer trips with a load.  However that is many years off, though I do look at cabin class pressurized twins from time to time.  Different discussion for another thread!

 

-Seth

[Seth]

I want to thank everyone for the advice.  Those who have me know I'm easygoing and adaptable to many situations. However as you can see I also plan in advance and am always thinking.  Usually plan A goes out the window in less than an hour no matter the situation.

 

Great advice!

To recap in addition to post one:

1. Bring pacifier and bottles of milk and water - I didn't mention that but already on the list.

2.  Slow climb - planned on 1000 feet as soon as possible and then 500 feet per minute after that.

3. Lots of pics!  Check!

4. Big gallon zip lock bags.  Very smart.  I have one on board, will bring many more.  And also a paper towel roll.

5.  Planned diversions.  I'll better research those so the decision will be instant for the current flight location

6. Calm Daddy = Calm Mommy = Calm baby!

7.  Purchase small eaeplugs and child 0-2 noise protection earmuffs.  We have been playing the put it on game, and she's happy to help mommy and daddy put on their headsets. But won't keep hers on her head.  Same with most hats and sunglasses.  We'll keep working on it.

Everything else on my original list.

 

Not going to do:

-timing does not allow for a short test flight beforehand.  My wife has flown with me often and we are going to go for it.  My daughter rarely cries.  If she cries for more than two minutes, something is very wrong.  Throbbing bruise/painful teething.  Otherwise can she's a very happy kid.  We'll know if this is not going to work within a few minutes.  I'm sure it'll be fine.

2.  Seat removal:  great idea!  However, I got the seat in easily during my test fit, so I'm not going to remove the seat for this flight.  Also, I've never done that myself.

 

Thanks again!

 

-Seth

[dlthig]

Seth,

     Sounds like you have the situation well in hand. Are you enroute?